To not want to sell the family home

[Schleich]

StbxDH and I have decided to separate. We have 4 kids still living at home. We are mid forties. He is full time and major breadwinner, I’m part time, much lower earner.

Our only assets are the family home (equity is about 25% of the house value for our 5 bed home) and quite a lot of pensions. No savings at all.

He wants kids 50:50, which I’m upset about but can’t really argue with - he’s a really good Dad and has a very flexible job, he spends loads of time with them now. He’s not doing it for the money - we’ve gone on the child maintenance calculator and he is offering to pay me 20% more than the amount he would pay if he was only having them one day per week. He’s offered to get it put into writing.

However, because we have no savings he is insisting we sell the family home to release equity, split the equity equally and buy a smaller home in a worse area each with the deposit plus mortgage. He says without doing this he will either have to rent (which he HATES - he bought a house as soon as he got his first proper job because he hates the idea of renting so much!), or buy a bedsit or small flat, which would be too small to have the kids stay. He says to get a rental big enough to house all the kids comfortably would be unaffordable (I’ve checked, and he’s right), or at the least would prevent him ever being able to get back on the property ladder. He also has a dog, which he loves, and most rentals don’t allow pets.

He knows that a court would likely give me more than 50% of the assets, and says that he is happy to give me whatever proportion of the pensions a mediator considers necessary to make it a fair settlement.

I really don’t want to move. On my relatively low salary I’ll be limited in how much of a house I can buy with half the equity (although he says I should be able to get a mortgage which takes maintenance into account). It’s likely the children will have to share bedrooms for the first time in their lives, and their ages/genders make this a bit difficult.

We did talk to the mortgage adviser and she said that that buying him out would be very difficult due to my earnings and the high price of the house, and would incur mortgage penalties which would wipe out 20% of the equity to switch to a mortgage company which might allow it (ours won’t take into account maintenance payments). He might be able to buy me out based on his income, but not if he is paying me maintenance - because I’d need the maintenance agreed in writing for my mortgage company to take into account but that would then impact on his borrowing ability!!

I suppose I just don’t want the children to suffer as a result of our decision to split up, and all I can see is them having to switch back and forth between two homes which are much to small for our big family.

@Autviaminveniamautfaciam

The decision to separate is mutual, but is mostly driven by me. To be honest I think the problem is I married him precisely because I felt he would be a perfect father and having kids was very important to me.

This sounds awful, but I've come to realise that I just don't enjoy his company outside of a family environment. Whenever we go out just the two of us, I'm just bored. I'm not the same person I was 25 years ago, and nor is he.

If we stayed together until the children are grown up, we really would be staying just for the children.

Based on past experience (he took a year off from work a few years ago), he would absolutely put in just as much parenting effort as me if we are both working full time.

'My bet is that your job as mum is just about to get harder and his job as dad is just about to get easier.

how is that if both have the DC 50% of the time?'

So a good friends ex took her to court for 50/50 despite the fact that he had the kid about 40% unofficially as they'd agreed. ( and he paid no maintenance). In his 'time' he did no homework, didn't take her to weekend sports club, didn't do music practice, never washed her clothes ( kid would come home with a bag of laundry for mum to wash), didn't respond to any school meetings or messages. Just did stuff his way.
Mum put up with this because kid loves her dad.
Dad gets pissed off about mum asking for financial help for activities for kids - and makes them both spend £20k to go to court.

Court, says no way to 50/50% as dad isn't doing any 'parenting' stuff, orders him to pay min. maintenance.

THAT'S how the mums job can get harder - because in her time with the kid she's running around like a headless chicken trying to make up for the homework missed, the practices missed etc. while dad gets to be the 'fun' parent. She had to organise the kid AND the dad half the time, just like when they were married, but from two different houses.

Pushing for 70:30 is what the solicitor suggested, but not because it would be best for the kids, but because it would put me in the strongest position to demand a more preferential split of assets/maximise the change of me staying in the house and him being forced to rent, and tie him more strongly into paying child maintenance. It all sounded very cynical, and like you needed to "play the system".

Yuck, if you know he is a good father and have no concerns, stick with 50/50 as it sounds like you are. Legal advice is worth seeking, although it seems what he is offering is fair to be honest. I can see how nesting is likely better for children, but it sounds horrendous, and nothing more than a short term solution.

Friends using co ownership to buy a property after divorce. Not ideal by any means but its enabling to buy which he couldn't do otherwise

Nesting sounds awful but if you could each have seperate bedrooms in the house by converting a room perhaps it wouldnt be so bad.

I hate the assumption on here that dads are incapable of being a present parent!
Many divorced couples I know the dads have fully stepped up to the plate and taken on an equal role with same time/effort/responsibility as mum. Nothing on this thread to suggest it won’t in this case
I do think OP you need to think about whether 50:50 is right for the teenagers - typically teenagers don’t want or need a fixed routine but stability in one home with lots of flexibility to visit /stay with the other around their sports, school and social lives

Unfortunately you are seeing that finances split between 2 houses are much tighter than running 1 and you’re all likely to be worse off

Keep talking but do seek legal advice about what options there could be

YANBU not to want to but I do think YWBU not to accept you are probably going to have to. You're going to have 50/50 care so both adults will need a house that can facilitate this and it doesn't seem at all possible for you to keep this house and the DC's father to purchase one of equal size, so unless you can make the 'keep the house for the kids and both adults rent somewhere small for their non dc time' idea work, what choice will you have?

Do you have parent or sibling who can act as guarantor?

I hate the assumption on here that dads are incapable of being a present parent

Yes me too, in some cases it is not surprising, if they're useless before seperating although some will step up some don't, but that shouldn't be a shocker. There are some good ones, and pushing for less than 50% to get more money (not that OP is doing this) when you have no reason to believe they are doing it just to avoid paying more is gross.

'I hate the assumption on here that dads are incapable of being a present parent'

I'm going on experience... but actually saying 70/30 is better here than 50/50 is more because of the financial circs and the age of the kids.
OP is in a precarious financial position and 50/50 will make it worse for her.

By a small two bed flat in worse ( hopefully up and coming ) area mum and dad have a room each which they stay at on their " off" days
Both parents have access time with kids in the family home, kids stay put in familiar surroundings
When last child has grown both properties are sold and split
Needs to be put in legal so isn't messed up by any new relationships

You need to see a solicitor. Most good ones will offer an introductory consultation to take note of your circumstances and discuss options. Mediators are solicitors who specialise in finding a compromise the courts will then enforce.

I'm divorced and left the family home with my ex and our 4 kids by switching the house to interest only mortgage and will continue this until youngest is 18.

I kept my pension and she has the house equity, so the asset split was pretty much 50/50.

I'm renting a 4-bed house so my kids can stay and only the 12 and 10 year olds share a room. I probably won't be able to buy for 7 years when I come off the mortgage. We considered doing what your ex wants but I decided against so the kids didn't have to live in a flat and move schools etc.

I earn £100k+ and my ex around £12k, but she gets child and tax credits and a lot in child maintenance from me. Her total income is pretty much what our monthly outgoings used to be and she has spare money for pets, modest holidays etc as do I. She doesn't have huge savings which I believe will disqualify her from getting tax and child credits.

Most courts will not force the sale of the family home until the youngest is 18. They will take account of both parent's needs when making a decision, and if you can't both agree they will decide and more often than not it's a 50/50 split of all assets (pension & equity).

Good luck.

@Waveysnail

Nesting sounds awful but if you could each have seperate bedrooms in the house by converting a room perhaps it wouldnt be so bad.

That sounds a lot worse than nesting! Which to my mind is the perfect solution. The kids suffer minimal disruption, both of you have your own private space for the 50% of time you’re not with the kids and everyone’s a winner. At those ages it’s not for long anyway - eight years at the absolute outside.

I strongly agree with everyone about getting really thorough advice before doing anything.

As he doesn't appear to be abusive, you've got time on your side.

I can only speak from my own experience, but I'd rather stay with a boring but income-producing dh for a few more years than live the single mum life I've currently got.

OP is in a precarious financial position and 50/50 will make it worse for her.

It's not all about OP though, is it. And they seem to be fair and looking for a resolution which works for them, as well as respecting their ex and thinking of their children.

OP if you have been to see a solicitor then you should be able to start working out what the range of possibilities is in relation to your share of equity. If, at the best estimate with your income maximised, you can’t afford the 5 bed house, then you need to get used to this not being an option.

He wants to buy a property and he is clear this is his red line. He will seek an equity release of some sort. From what you have said on here is is very likely to get it. Neither of you need a 5 bed house. You both have good incomes when CMS is taken into account. A clean break is achievable and will be the default option.

His offer on child support is very very generous. You would be set to lose a lot of income if you push for an alternative in a fruitless effort to keep the house.

Don’t waste money on solicitors fighting for something that isn’t achievable or for something that you may not be able to afford in the long run. Because he can default to CMS after one year or he could lose his job.

Nesting can work.

My closest friend and her ex H did this for 18 months until the dust had settled and they all knew a bit more of what they wanted.

They rented a small house with a garden and two bedrooms. The deal was that neither went into the other's bedroom while they were away and left the house as they found it. They also had the DCs at the house one night of the week - not to stay, just for dinner so they could spend some time with them.

It worked well for them because they both wanted the same things and both respected the other one (even though they didn't want to be married anymore). It wouldn't work with an acrimonious split obviously.

@Wilsonsdad

You need to see a solicitor. Most good ones will offer an introductory consultation to take note of your circumstances and discuss options. Mediators are solicitors who specialise in finding a compromise the courts will then enforce.

I'm divorced and left the family home with my ex and our 4 kids by switching the house to interest only mortgage and will continue this until youngest is 18.

I kept my pension and she has the house equity, so the asset split was pretty much 50/50.

I'm renting a 4-bed house so my kids can stay and only the 12 and 10 year olds share a room. I probably won't be able to buy for 7 years when I come off the mortgage. We considered doing what your ex wants but I decided against so the kids didn't have to live in a flat and move schools etc.

I earn £100k+ and my ex around £12k, but she gets child and tax credits and a lot in child maintenance from me. Her total income is pretty much what our monthly outgoings used to be and she has spare money for pets, modest holidays etc as do I. She doesn't have huge savings which I believe will disqualify her from getting tax and child credits.

Most courts will not force the sale of the family home until the youngest is 18. They will take account of both parent's needs when making a decision, and if you can't both agree they will decide and more often than not it's a 50/50 split of all assets (pension & equity).

Good luck.

This right here is an awful outcome for the woman. It’s why clean breaks are recommended and why in the long run they work better for most women.

What happens on a few years time.

Laddo gets the chance to crack on with his life knowing he can get a better share of the equity and buy a home when the time comes. He can build his career because he has childcare all lined up.

Meanwhile she is stuck on a shit wage looking after the kids reliant on Mr bountiful to keep her ticking along. Her chances of being able to afford a home when he takes his mighty cut are low.

If it's likely that your DC will be off to Uni &/or living away from the ages of 18 then you have 2 years to wait until you've three DC at home and four years until it's two at home. What I'm saying is it's not that long before the situation changes again and you certainly don't need a 5 bed house once you've only got the youngest two. If nesting doesn't work for you think about buying the best 3 or 4 bed home you can get in a cheaper area knowing it won't be forever. Kids may have to share or lose a dining room to make an extra bedroom etc

@SarahBellam

Is your house large enough to divide up? I have quite a big house on which my ex and I still have a joint mortgage (we also get along very well - this is important). He has a 2 bed house where he lives with his partner. The kids stay there 2 nights a week but have to share a room which they’re less keen on as they get older.

My ex and I work in a sector that is going to be absolutely clobbered by Covid and Brexit so are looking at options to ensure we can keep a roof over ours and the kids’ heads if the worst comes to the worst. We are considering a big loft conversion which will give me a good sized open plan living area, mine and the kids rooms will be on the first floor, and we convert the ground floor into a flat for him and his partner - they will have the lounge, the dining room (which becomes their bedroom - and an en-suite will go in there), and a kitchen diner. We have to work out the logistics but it means we will have separate living quarters with separate entrances, but the kids have access to both of us and we can continue to share care while rarely seeing each other if that’s what we choose, while saving a tonne of money.

I don't know if you've picked up on this OP, but it sounds very sensible indeed.

If nesting is not an option, is this possible in your house? You and STBExDH seem to be on very good terms, this could work for you too.

I think that personally (as you still seem to be getting on) I would carry on and stay in the house together "for the sake of the children". The 16 year old will be away in 2 years (possibly), then maybe have a reconsider. Far better for the kids to share now than the upheaval of moving and going from house to house. none of this will be fast anyway, could take you a year. Why the urgency if is as you say, that you are bored with him?

Just because he wants 50/50 does not mean it is fair and that you have to agree to it
I am a bit shocked reading such comments from several PPs. Why is it not 'fair' for the dad to want 50/50? Why isn't OP the one who should compromise and have them less than 50% ?
Then the dad could keep the family home and OP could rent a small place on her own (which might be too small to accommodate all DCs) - reading between the line this is what some posters and OP would like to happen.

OP has said clearly that she earns the top level for her career, so no impact from her marriage on her career progression. The lack of earnings/pension from going part time doesn't matter if all current assets are divided 50/50.
She says that the dad is hands on and has flexibility to look after the DCs half the time.
So really, I am not sure why people believe she is owed anything more than 50% + the generous maintenance he is offering? And why if the DC arrangement is not 50/50 she should automatically be the one to have them more?

So couldn't you stay together for the children then?

You chose him, you chose to have 4 children with him. Now you are going to tear up the family because you are bored?

I think your stbxh is being very fair. You admit that he is a good dad and pulls his weight, plus wanting his dcs 50:50 is the way it should be. However, the age they are, they would probably want to decide themselves how they want to split their time between you and him. It would be unfair (and morally wrong) on both your dcs and your ex to insist that you get them 70:30 just to get a more preferential split of assets!

”we’ve gone on the child maintenance calculator and he is offering to pay me 20% more than the amount he would pay if he was only having them one day per week.” This says a lot about your ex and how extremely fair he is being financially.

Do you really think it would be fair that ex would have to rent somewhere unsuitable to have his dcs, so you can keep the large parental home and get the majority of assets?

You really need to get more legal advice. There’s no way you can work this out from a half hour appointment!

Personally I’d rather move and buy something smaller than nest! Imagine sleeping in a bed that your ex was shagging his new flame in half the week, or having your ex change your things around in the family house, seeing everything you’ve changed/bought, having to hide your personal things.