To ask how much of your income you spend on school fees? And pls tell me its worth it...

[Claliscool]

Not rich by any means.
Decided to send both children to independent school in September due to all sorts of covid and other reasons. The fees are about one third of our household income. Just bricking it slightly.

[quote Katharinablum]@Evelefteden not to labour the point it's a tad hypocritical to suddenly find the love for the state system I think most people don't begrudge private education, horses for courses and all that, but to many, privately educated kids who are already tremendously priviledged, leapfroging over their state educated peers just seems inherently unfair.
Otoh I can't talk, I exploited the church route and my kids went/still go to a top 50 comp. In the end most of us try to do what's best.[/quote]
But why wouldn’t I want my kids to go to the best schools in the area?

You do realise that you only get in to Grammar based on your 11+ plus results. It’s an even playing field. Every child takes the same exam.

timetest I’m fully aware that they might not pass the test. I think all parents will be aware, no one thinks it’s a free pass. I was a sports teacher and coach. For me, in my experience, a really strong understanding of what you are learning at foundation level is better than joining in much further on down the line. The teaching moves at such a fast past if you have holes in your learning you will always struggle to progress. Going down the private route at a later age was never an option for us.

@Evelefteden I’ve read through the thread and been interested in your posts. Your school isn’t a ‘feeder’ school in any way other than a sense of entitlement that you are paying for your child to be prepared for 11+. One meaning of feeder school is a primary in which attendance means you automatically attend the secondary, found in the state sector. Another meaning can be a prep school with a strong relationship with a senior school which means a lot of children move from one to the other. The fact that the excellent grammar is taking a big chunk of your year 6 doesn’t meet either definition, and gives the perception of some sort of arrangement that I sincerely hope doesn’t exist.

Do you really think the 11+ is a level playing field? You’ve said your school prepares children for it. Most state schools don’t have the capacity to do that. Many parents can’t afford tutors. How can we say that every child has the same chances there?

I am a state school parent and read this thread to see what sort of answers the OP would get. I’m sure there’s a huge variety of quality in both sectors. I was though struck by the poster who said that people who could afford private school but chose not to had to make excuses for their choice. Why? In the many areas where state education is adequate, is it not enough to believe in it?

Good luck with your decision, OP. For the record, it’s unaffordable for us, as for the majority of parents in this country, but I don’t in any way judge you for your choice if it’s right for you!

I don't think this should even be regarded as a thread about education. It's a thread about personal finance.

Unless you are extremely rich (but you aren't, because private schools don't cost that much!) spending 1/3 of your income on anything other than housing or, if necessary, healthcare is a really reckless financial decision.

It might be worth it if there was simply no other option, e.g. it might be worth spending 1/3 of one partner's income to get the other's potentially profitable or rewarding other career going. But it isn't worth it when the state education system is there and improving all the time. I really can't emphasise enough how much it seems, from the universities' perspective, to have improved over the last decade.

I also struggle with it but it’s more nuanced I think - we haven’t gone private but can afford a house near a good state School and are educated involved parents who travel a lot so our kids massively advantaged by that so I would be a hypocrite to rail against private education

Me and my two brothers all went to private school, me from age 12, one brother from age 8 and the other from Reception.

We all gained confidence from it. We can all speak to anyone and are good at holding conversations and mixing at any level of society (hate that term but it's true).

In terms of academic success gained from private schooling, I got a 2:1 for my degree in Business and Finance and am a mid level civil servant. I didn't need my degree for my job but it's useful. What has been even more useful is that I'm used to mixing with loads of people from different cultures/religions so I'm a not a small minded bigot like a lot of the people where we are from. I'm very accepting of all sorts of lifestyles and adaptable.

My middle brother did averagely well at school and did an international baccalaureate and went on to uni. He dropped out in second year but has still got a really good job earning 6 figures. Like the rest of us he can talk to anyone.

My youngest brother has dyslexia and this was picked up really early at his private school. He was never academic but did the best he could. He went on to uni but only got a third which my stepdad was really disappointed with after spending thousands and thousands on his education.
Turns out that the social skills he learned at school meant that didn't really matter and he's got an excellent job too earning over 80k in his mid 20s. He has a network of 'old boys' from his school which he finds very useful in business now.

So academically maybe it wasn't worth it but in the long run it was.

Unless you are extremely rich (but you aren't, because private schools don't cost that much!) spending 1/3 of your income on anything other than housing or, if necessary, healthcare is a really reckless financial decision.

40k out of a total net income of 150k is nearly a third. But remarkably enough it is pretty straightforward to live on the residual income of 110k & save enough to have several years of fees at hand at any one time. Colleagues with similar incomes who don't send their children to private schools often buy more expensive cars, go on more holidays, have larger houses etc.

EveleftEden, my post wasn’t directed at you particularly. I live in an 11 plus area and quite a few of the less expensive preps are little more than 11 plus sweat shops. The parents whose children are not successful at the exam are always surprised and upset at the result.

@Yamashita40

Me and my two brothers all went to private school, me from age 12, one brother from age 8 and the other from Reception.

We all gained confidence from it. We can all speak to anyone and are good at holding conversations and mixing at any level of society (hate that term but it's true).

In terms of academic success gained from private schooling, I got a 2:1 for my degree in Business and Finance and am a mid level civil servant. I didn't need my degree for my job but it's useful. What has been even more useful is that I'm used to mixing with loads of people from different cultures/religions so I'm a not a small minded bigot like a lot of the people where we are from. I'm very accepting of all sorts of lifestyles and adaptable.

My middle brother did averagely well at school and did an international baccalaureate and went on to uni. He dropped out in second year but has still got a really good job earning 6 figures. Like the rest of us he can talk to anyone.

My youngest brother has dyslexia and this was picked up really early at his private school. He was never academic but did the best he could. He went on to uni but only got a third which my stepdad was really disappointed with after spending thousands and thousands on his education.
Turns out that the social skills he learned at school meant that didn't really matter and he's got an excellent job too earning over 80k in his mid 20s. He has a network of 'old boys' from his school which he finds very useful in business now.

So academically maybe it wasn't worth it but in the long run it was.

I was going to buzz off, but this post to me exemplifies how easy it is to attach benefits to something when we don’t know the alternative! How do any of us know what school has given us over and above our own innate character and ability?

I didn’t go to private school but I can also speak to anyone. I’ve spent much of my career working alongside people from far more ‘distinguished’ backgrounds than me, without any trouble getting along with them. I’ve also worked with people significantly less advantaged without any communication issues. I also got a 2.1 and am a senior civil servant.

I would say as a broad observation that private school produces more confident people than state, but when that confidence is misplaced, it’s not always a good thing!

I think private schools can be excellent for some children. But state schools kids can be presentable in society too, and I’m not sure that would my motive in using a private school if it were an option.

Please don’t underestimate the fee increases. Ours increased by around 10-12% per year. And that’s not including the huge increase for sixth form.

Whats the point of spending so much on private education that you can't afford to help them through university?

It's under 10% for us. But that's just for one child and she has several scholarships.

If we were paying full whack and had multiple kids there it'd be a different story.

Incidentally, I've never found the "extras" to be the horror story that everyone warns about on these threads. Uniform I paid out for everything new once, and since then it's been a cost neutral exercise as I've sold on her outgrown stuff and bought 2nd hand from people with older girls. Trips are barely more expensive that state, and the really expensive stuff like ski trips she just doesn't do. We'll save up for the big sports tours they do at the top end of the Senior School, but she's a sports scholar, so she'll get a % off the cost.

When she was in the Prep we saved a fortune by the wraparound care being included, so with scholarships it was no more expensive than state + childminder.

I'd do it again in a heartbeat. This is a fairly small school, but academically excellent, with amazing extra-curricular.

@timetest

EveleftEden, my post wasn’t directed at you particularly. I live in an 11 plus area and quite a few of the less expensive preps are little more than 11 plus sweat shops. The parents whose children are not successful at the exam are always surprised and upset at the result.

Yeah of course they would be

They would be because they wrongly assumed that a private education would automatically send them to the grammar. Huge mistake for people only just scraping the money for the fees. So yeah. Always have a plan B.

@timetest

They would be because they wrongly assumed that a private education would automatically send them to the grammar. Huge mistake for people only just scraping the money for the fees. So yeah. Always have a plan B.

How many prep parents do you actually know? How strange they all thought this... What a strange area you live in

And don’t worry we have a plan b

@dwndlft, I think you're being a bit disingenuous! The average private school fees are, it seems, 17k a year for non-boarders. So 34k for two children. The OP said the fees were about a third, not less than a third, so assume a household income of 100k. That's 66k to live on -- about half of the amount you have.

She also didn't mention whether the fees were 1/3 of net or gross income. People usually talk about their salary as gross.

If you have a big mortgage, which she mentions, and no savings, this isn't a very sensible decision -- especially in the post-covid world, given current uncertainty about everything.

I live in a Kent. I have 2 children with a big a age gap between them. I have known many parents who have experienced this and listened with a patient ear to them bemoaning their lot when the plan fails. When all goes well great but when it goes belly up; not so much.

@MsTSwift

I find it grating when private school parents say they “prioritise education” like the rest of us don’t give a stuff 🙄

Oh yes, don't forget all those dutiful 'sacrifices' the poor loves have to make either. No foreign holidays, new cars or swanky gym memberships. Conveniently forgetting that for the majority of families it would be the equivalent of food on the table, rent/mortgage payment, keeping a second hand runabout on the road and an annual wet week in Wales!

I live n a grammar county and a few of the preps are very much 11 plus crammers. They don’t take dc to 13 and don’t feed traditional
public schools. Their existence is totally based on parents wanting dc to go to grammar schools. The dc don’t all make it and there can be terrible issues with confidence and failure when this happens. Having said that the upwardly mobile using the state schools put huge pressure on dc too and all pay for tutoring. It’s not a remotely fair system.

We sent one state primary and one to prep. Both to senior boarding schools. Around 1/10 of income when both were boarding.

Private school isn’t just about jobs and qualifications. It can be a way of life and friends for life. It’s a way of educating with extra layers that are not available at many state schools. You simply cannot compare the best private schools with state. I think you can compare a very average private with a grammar and if that was the case and I was spending 1/3 of my income, I wouldn’t. If it was a top notch independent school compared with a mediocre comp, then I would.

Some independently educated dc have great confidence but so do plenty of other people. However not all will have had the breadth of education and the extras provided by the best private schools - much of which cannot be replicated by state schools. Exams are a narrow base on which to judge a school.

12% for us, that’s for two kids

We could afford it... but won't.

We'd rather have that money for things that will benefit the whole family a little more. Larger house, holidays etc.

For context, DH went to a private school all the way through. I just went to the local primary and the nearest state secondary. We're about equally intelligent I'd say. We had broadly similar GCSEs, I did better in A-Level, AND got a better degree grade. Granted, I probably worked harder, because that's just my nature. But still. His private education didn't do him any better than someone who did the state system throughout. I also have a better paid job now.

Our pre-school children both seem fairly bright and articulate, and there don't seem to be any learning needs. But if they appear, we'll support by using private tutors if necessary.

By going private... DH says you do buy yourself a bit of an entry to "a club", but membership of the "private school elite" only really pays off for a VERY small number of occupations. Mostly in finance (and then only in the city) or old-school corporations. For 95% of jobs, a private school education gets you no further, and can even stand against you in some settings, as they're seen as snobby, and like you got a free leg up.

@ MsTSwift plenty of people don’t prioritise education in their household budget tho. It’s not aN unsubstantiated dig it’s fact.

We run two (nice cars), ski every year as a family, go abroad, have a £1000 a year bill for Sky Tv, eat out, wear apple watches, have iPhones on £60 a month contract each, have a cleaner, bought a pet dog so have all his insurance and food costs, get our daughter dance and swim lessons...

We could certainly add all that up and pay for private education. But we choose not to prioritise school fees in our budget. We probably should, but prefer other stuff.

If you’re paying £60 a month for an iPhone contract, they saw you coming. Mine’s £32 a month with unlimited everything. And nice boasting, by the way.

I had an utterly cringe interview for a City law firm - managing partner “oh you are from Bristol I went to school there to St Cuthberts (grandest public school available)” I had to admit I went to Bash Street comp “oh I’ve not heard of that one”🙄 was the response

Got the job though 😁

@alsohuman sorry I meant £65 a month.

iPhone 11 Pro with 10GB of data. Screenshot attached. What a weird argument to pick with someone

I’m a teacher in an independent school and all three of mine went to the (different) independent school that DH works at. From a teacher’s perspective independents value their older and more experienced staff. In the state sector and particularly academies such teachers are squeezed out because they are expensive. We have less admin and more freedom to teach to our strengths. Music, sport etc is really strong. We got 1/2 fee reductions but still a stretch with three but worth it.