To ask how much of your income you spend on school fees? And pls tell me its worth it...

[Claliscool]

Not rich by any means.
Decided to send both children to independent school in September due to all sorts of covid and other reasons. The fees are about one third of our household income. Just bricking it slightly.

@RedtreesRedtrees

“ I find it grating when private school parents say they “prioritise education” like the rest of us don’t give a stuff 🙄”

Plenty of people look at their household budget and realise that if they make sacrifices elsewhere then they can stretch to private school. That is prioritising education over other things.

Education does not just happen in formal settings though. Many people prioritise education as travel or family support or university etc.

Fizzysours
This thread is about opinions on whether private schools are worth it/ affordable for the op. It is a state v private thread.
I am talking about a recent situation where l felt our private schools did a better job than our local state schools who were not providing much education. This is a fact.

Yes those things can certainly supplement a formal education.

“Prioritising education “ is a dreadful phrase.
Private schools are a luxury not many can afford.... we spend £20k a year which is an salary for loads of people.

To imply that most people could manage that if they only put down their lease car keys or takeaways is patronising and stupid.

We’ve always taken our children to museums etc, played traditional board games and card, tried new activities, Watched documentaries, insisted on books in the car, not screens....etc. That is “prioritising education“ and costs hardly anything. You can’t lump in a privileged education into that category

“To imply that most people could manage that if they only put down their lease car keys or takeaways is patronising and stupid.”

No one has said most people can afford it - that would be patronising and stupid. There are however a lot of people who could but choose not to and then spend all the time trying to justify their decision.

I can't answer the % question either as we just take higher drawings from our business during the school fee years.

For us it's worth it. My siblings and I were at private school and I think did better than if we'd gone to state. My children are now at private and i would move hell and high water to keep them there now after Covid.

Someone earlier asked why move due to Covid. Our village school allowed the 3 year groups back for 2 days a week and has done v little teaching - mainly supervising the home learning worksheets emailed out once a week.

My kids school had all allowed classes back full time from day 1 with full teaching. Kids who chose to stay at Home were provided with their own learning for the week. From sept my kids will be in bubbles of 15 ( to be fair we are primary). They have outdoor classrooms, huge playgrounds, a woodland garden and playing fields. There's a library and science rooms. There's no issues with finding space to spread out.

Someone else asked why not buy your kids a house when they're older. My granny always used to say an education is the one thing no one can take away from you. We also don't want to give our kids things. We want to give them the tools to be able to get these things themselves.

However, I say this in an area where at the local state school you'd be lucky to get 5 GCSE's. Extra curricular is non existent. Aspirations are low. The difference between state and private here is a gaping chasm. I might feel differently if we lived in the Mumsnet utopia where state is often good or better than the local private school.

I'm sorry, but I think that's absolutely bonkers. Please don't do this. We send our older DC (reception) to private school, mostly because the school is incredibly close to our house and the state options where we currently live aren't brilliant. But we spend

It's about half of my take home, but I have no mortgage. My income fluctuates a lot, but school has always been a priority.
The state options near me - well they are barely adequate. I moved to a much cheaper area, in part so I could keep them in a private school.
Is it worth it? Absolutely 1000%. The school has done an incredible job throughout the pandemic. My daughter is in the crucial Y10, and she has had the complete syllabus and I'm not at all worried about her GCSEs next year (at least not more than normal). How they have provided for the kids has just underlined the difference between private and state for me. Sure some state schools have stepped up and some private have been woeful but ours has been fantastic.
My child is bright and may well have done ok in a state school, but I believe it has benefitted her (and my son) in ways beyond just academics.
If there was an excellent state school that I thought fit with my childs character then yes I would send her there. But there isn't.
We still have a nice house. I have a car, the kids have the things they want. We holiday every other year. It's worth it. (And no we are not different from the majority of families in private education - most make sacrifices to some extent and budget hard to afford it).

We have one for whom the fees are £9k per term (sixth form), two others for whom it’s £8-9k per term and another for whom it’s more like £5-6k. It’s a lot of money! What I would say, is that you get what you pay for. The higher fees are for very selective independent senior schools in London. I can’t fault the education they’re receiving really. I’d say 90% of the teachers are top of their game (with a few bizarre exceptions). The whole outlook and confidence it gives them is great. One of these schools has about 20% of students there on bursaries. Nobody worries about not being able to afford a trip or any extra opportunity. There is a fundamental policy that, if you are accepted into the school, no child should be deprived of any opportunity due to their family’s financial circumstances. You just fill in a form and that’s it. DC are going all over the world for free. There is probably more diversity in this school than the average surburban comp tbh. It’s in an urban part of West London, so hardly cloistered away. Academic standards are high though and I think at GCSE, something like 95% of all grades are 9-7.

The school that is cheaper is just nowhere near the same value for money. This is not because it’s less selective. It’s because of the way it’s run and the leadership / teachers are just not if the same calibre. Having said that, it’s smaller class sizes and a more containing environment than the state schools would be, so this is the only reason we’ve stuck with it. Plus the friends are lovely.

Not all children are suited to very academic schools, but if they are and they’re not phased by being a “small fish in a big pond,” I do think it’s worth it because the teaching really extends them and high standards become the “norm.” Also, it prepares you for life really because, nobody makes a fuss of the students who get all “9s” etc as if they’re something special or spectacular - this is just considered slightly better than average. So when they go off to very competitive unis or the workplace they’re not phased by the competition because they’re used to it.

Most of the students who join in the sixth form (having passed the entrance exam, interview and got mostly 9s) are from state schools and quite a lot do struggle tbh. Not because of perceived wealth disparities really - the school is very mixed in that sense. But it’s because they have been “top dog” and known as the outlier in their previous schools and this has been their identity (fair enough). Some have been in the papers for their achievements, or they’ve been head girl / boy - this kind of thing. So it’s hard to suddenly just be be average in a cohort and they have to learn that average is actually fine in that kind of environment.

Not all state schools have classes of 30 or more. My child is in a class of 17 next year; the other KS2 classes are similar in size. I previously taught in a MAT where the policy was class sizes of 20 or fewer.

Every parent with the choice to do this has different reasons for it. I and my siblings went to private school from age 4 to 18 as have my 5 children and indeed their cousins on my side of the family and indeed the next generation so far (starting Sept. although that will entirely be a matter for my children and their cousins to decide based on what they choose and can afford and I am very happy whatever they all decide).

Where women work full time and their husbands do too the cost of full time childcare for a baby is about the same as school fees so continuing what you have done for 4 years already tends to be doable unless you were paying full time childcare costs out of income. The same happens at university stage. If you were paying £14k a year school fees (£18k per child in my case 3 years ago - outer London) then funding university fees (if you choose to do so) of £9250 a year is cheaper even if you add on the rent.

I never felt I was buying exam grades though. With teenagers I was mostly ensuring a peer group where everyone was in the top 20% by IQ as I chose reasonably academic single sex day schools (but there are loads of different types of private schools and plenty directed to a much broader academic range) and where everyone went to reasonable universities and a lot of other factors too.

Also as a post above illustrates some private schools seem to have very rich people in them. We haven't found that really at schools like Haberdashers and North London Collegiate - whilst of course everyone who is not on a scholarship can afford the fees I never felt there were very rich people splashing cash around - just lots of people committed to their child's education.

There are a lot of assumptions on this thread, and some unnecessary vitriol.

I can't answer the OP's question as it was a route that we didn't go down in the end, although we did consider it carefully. In the end we went down the state school route, only sending DD to a maths tutor for GCSE for a couple of months when she needed it. DD achieved excellent GCSE and A level results at her (rather good) state school, and is now at a very good university studying a STEM degree. I feel that the only thing she may have missed out on is gaining the self-assertiveness and confidence she might have gained from being educated privately. In terms of academic success, none of her peers at private school have done as well as she has.

There are no private schools in our LEA, and those who go down the private route send their DC to private school in the next city, about 15 miles away.
The mixed sex school isn’t as academic as the boys or girls schools (which are part of the same foundation). As a result there are a higher proportion of less affluent pupils at the more academically rigorous schools than at the mixed sex school. The mixed sex school has had more problems with eating disorders, drugs and competition over positional goods. It is a very good school by all accounts with excellent pastoral care, but the parents there are generally more affluent, so the money for drugs and designer clothes and accessories is more widely accessible.

This is the impression I have got from talking to parents who have DC at all of the schools. Interestingly, we have one of the best state 6th form colleges in the country in the next county, and most of the students go there rather than do A levels at the private schools. They get a better education for free there.

Some of the issues raised about state schools, such as not excluding disruptive pupils are because ofsted is cracking down on schools who exclude pupils:
www.tes.com/news/exclude-and-youre-not-outstanding-ofsted-told-heads

If a school’s exclusions have risen sharply it could trigger an ofsted inspection.

[quote Fizzysours]@Evelefteden somebody writes a calm detailed post, and they have a chip on their shoulder? Perhaps you do. Maybe I do. What a meaningless comment. Many many teaching professionals won't work in private schools because they are actually very behind when it comes to the academic side of teaching, and they get their results due to low class sizes. Sofor teachers who love their craft, a public school will be a frustrating place to work. Recently I went to a development event and PS teachers still all believed in widely debunked learning styles theories. Send kids to an excellent secondary and they will fly...and also be far better able to mix socially. Public school kids are notorious for only really fitting in with other public school kids. And no, not because they have better manners. Maybe towards their parents, but they can be downright arrogant towards anyone outside of their little world. Which, yes, is a very successful world, but I'd rather have kids who fit into wider society.[/quote]
Yeah this whole post is bullshit

Any post where the OP asks a question to private school parents always attracts posters that are compelled to say how poor private schools are, they are not worth the money, state schools are much better blah blah. Like moths to a flame. It must really stick in some people throat that some parents are able to pay for their child’s education.

I’ve worked in state schools. I’m very happy with my dds private school. The exam results and my child’s happiness and progress which is further along that her state school friends speak for them selves

It’s not always the case that private is better and I say that as a private school parent. My dcs friends who go to a great local state (C of E school that we wouldn’t get into as we aren’t Christian and it’s very oversubscribed) are just as well educated as my dc.

If you had great local state my honest view is best to go that route and save your cash.

Less than 2% including extra tutoring but not including sport and music.

I would be freaking out about 1/3 but we still have a very decent mortgage to pay and very expensive extra curriculars and we travel a fair bit (usually) so we couldn’t afford to do those things and pay 1/3 of our income in school fees. Maybe if your only expense was school fees and very poor schooling options that forced you to have to commit to a high fee school then 1/3 would be reasonable? But it is a huge amount to pay and I don’t think I could justify it.

Yes, the Fizzy post does not sound quite right. My children's father has worked in state and private schools as a teacher (although mostly private) and I don't think he has found teachers worse at teaching and less qualified in the private schools.

I think what happens on these threads is that people just base their perceptions of “independent school” on their local one or whatever. The truth is, independent schools vary as much as state schools. A sleepy, rural independent that will take just about any child as long as you can stump up the fees, is obviously a world away from a super-selective where the odds of getting in at 11 plus is 15:1 and you can throw as much money at them as you like, but it will make no difference to your child’s chances of a place.

It depends where you live anyway. If you have a great state school locally, or grammars - lucky you. Maybe you paid the equivalent of school fees in stamp duty to move into the “right” area?

Maybe you suddenly became a church-going Catholic when your child was two?

The whole thing is a postcode lottery. The situation in London is particularly crazy.

Like Xenia, I don’t recognise the independent school image of black Range Rovers and designer handbags at dawn. In London, the kids generally make their own way to school and there’s nowhere to park anyway, so no awareness of who is who in this car or whatever and nobody cares.

That’s insane - a THIRD of your income??? Will you be able to afford to do anything else other than keep a roof over your head?
A work with a lot of privately educated people and other than some of them being incredibly overconfident I can’t really see that they’re any better educated than the state schooled colleagues, if anything many of them are worse.
The most important thing for a kids education is their parents engagement in it - helping them, encouraging them.
I would use the state school then pay for extra activities like music or sports clubs and even the odd tutor if they needed it and make sure that they kids have family experiences that keep them grounded and we’ll rounded. Holidays, experiences are more important than going to a school with felt blazers.

@Evelefteden to be fair you still admit you 'll be sending your children to the
local 'feeder' state grammar... Why not the private secondary ?

[quote Katharinablum]@Evelefteden to be fair you still admit you 'll be sending your children to the
local 'feeder' state grammar... Why not the private secondary ? [/quote]
Because it’s in the top ten grammar schools in the U.K. that’s why

Our local boys school effectively kept going throughout the lockdown, with zoom lessons etc. They were pretty good at keeping spirits up too, with lots of multiwindow YouTube recordings of the prep school children doing fun musical etc stuff in their own homes. Their young music master is a techno whizz as well as a great composer of rock-opera type styles. Nice.

I think if you make the right choice and can afford it, there is lots to gain, especially in terms of music, sport and languages. But the more that is on offer, the more you have to shell out and you’ll have to work hard to keep your children’s feet on the ground and stop them being resentful and generally unpleasant, and to make sure they understand how unrepresentative their world is, especially when all around them start getting cars etc. I’m fairly agnostic about it. If a good state school had been available I probably would have fought for that. So much depends on the child. Our eldest would have been happy anywhere. Our youngest got the best ‘material’ benefit - results, sport, music etc but is also the one who struggles with having friends who are much better off than we are.

I think the fees for our children are about 1/3 of dh's income. But we are paying for the schooling mainly out of savings and investments which he has been accruing over the years since he started working.
Yes, he was 20 and thinking about the theoretical children he would one day spawn.
Ditto with pension savings.
We still dont have a lot of spare cash though, but there are plenty of other families in the same boat. This is for prep school.
A few of the less high earners are looking at grammar instead of private secondary schools, but we are staying in private sector.

May I just point out that parents who just about manage to afford prep fees in the expectation of a place at a grammar school don’t always get the result they want. It might have been a better Option for those parents to have waited till their child was in year 8 and then send them to a non selective independent.

@Evelefteden not to labour the point it's a tad hypocritical to suddenly find the love for the state system I think most people don't begrudge private education, horses for courses and all that, but to many, privately educated kids who are already tremendously priviledged, leapfroging over their state educated peers just seems inherently unfair.
Otoh I can't talk, I exploited the church route and my kids went/still go to a top 50 comp. In the end most of us try to do what's best.

I think we paid just over a quarter of ours and tbh it wasn't worth it. My middle son who went to the local comp has done a lot better career wise. My eldest has it in his mind that the world owes him a living and as we've not taught our children that the only place he could have learnt it was school.