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A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO

383 replies

Fuckinellitsme · 16/07/2020 18:14

Following on from the first thread here

Thank you to all the lovely posters who have shared their experiences on the first thread. It's been incredibly useful in understanding why some people are exempt from wearing a mask on transport, in shops and so on. Particularly in terms of learning about health conditions that aren't widely known, and also the psychological reasons for exemption. Some incredibly brave posters on that thread for whom I am full of admiration.

For those who need them exemption lanyards are available here

Sunflower lanyards can also be picked up for free at several large supermarkets, including Sainsbury's and Asda.

If anyone feels they want/are able to share their reasons for exemption, please do - it may help others to understand why many people can't wear masks, and also (if the last thread is anything to go by) is useful for educating the rest of us on conditions we're not familiar with.

Stay safe all 💐

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
LangClegsInSpace · 21/07/2020 00:48

Everyone who can wear a face covering should have the best advice on what sorts of masks are the most effective and the most wearable, how, when and where to wear it to best reduce transmission, how it fits in with all the other measures like physical distancing, hand and respiratory hygiene.

Everyone should have the most accurate, up-to-date information on how much difference face coverings actually make. From what we know so far, effective face coverings are definitely helpful in some situations if enough people wear them. It doesn't need to be everybody. Face coverings don't make enough of a difference to justify depriving loads of people of their basic rights because they are unable to wear one due to disability, health conditions or past trauma.

Nobody should feel obliged to train themselves out of experiencing severe distress when they try wearing a face covering just so they can get a bus or a pint of milk without being harassed.

Masks are helpful but they are not that helpful. Expecting people to put themselves through days and weeks of terrifying flashbacks or panic attacks just in order to try and wear a face covering is hugely disproportionate. Your mental health is worth far more than the small additional reduction in transmission if enough people wear one in specific situations.

Nobody who cannot wear a face covering should be obliged to work their way through a list of pointless, impractical, evidence-free alternatives before they are allowed to use the exemptions that have been written into law for their protection.

We wear face coverings to help reduce the spread of the virus, not to look as if we are wearing face coverings. We deserve better.

LangClegsInSpace · 21/07/2020 01:10

'Have you tried wearing a cardboard Terry Wogan fun mask?'

A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO
A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO
HeIenaDove · 21/07/2020 01:20

Great posts Lang Flowers Just imagine the face masks that will be available come Halloween if we are still having to wear them then.

SengaStrawberry · 21/07/2020 10:06

Totally agree @LangClegsInSpace

countrygirl99 · 21/07/2020 10:53

Great post LangClegsinSpace

HeIenaDove · 21/07/2020 18:09

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/disabled-scots-lawyer-disgusted-after-22380425?fbclid=IwAR0kTWJTrE-LAf-DL2YN0JXuvl-0tJ8sKWy5z4MsjiXwfRxyrA1gV_VnhUA

Disabled Scots lawyer 'disgusted' after being harassed and refused entry to shops without face mask
Daniel Donaldson has hidden disabilities and says he has been taken aback by the treatment he has received on the street from strangers

A disabled Scots lawyer claims he has been regularly harassed and abused by strangers for not wearing a face mask in shops.

Daniel Donaldson has hidden respiratory disabilities and is exempt from wearing a mask.

The 40-year-old, who is a disability rights lawyer, says he has been left ‘disgusted’ by the discriminatory treatment directed towards him and others who are permitted to not wear a face covering in public.

He claims he has been confronted by strangers, subjected to vile verbal attacks and refused entry into stores since face masks were made mandatory in shops in Scotland on July 10.

Daniel told the Daily Record: “I have hidden disabilities and underlying medical conditions and therefore I am exempt from wearing a mask.

“However I have been utterly taken aback at the treatment I, and others in similar situations, have experienced since they were made compulsory two weeks ago.

We are being discriminated against and refused access to shops on some occasions, and that is just not acceptable.

“I’m disgusted.

“Just last week I was stopped in John Lewis by a customer who demanded to know where my mask was.

“I said I am exempt and then a further explanation was demanded, to which I told the person to ‘p* off’ because it’s a breach of my privacy.

"Face masks affect my breathing. This raises my respiration. This increases my heart rate. This causes distress. To wear this, I need to take diazepam. In addition to the regular medications, and liquid steroids to help keep my airways open

Daniel also slammed the Scottish Government for “rushing through” confusing legislation to enforce the new rule.

He added: “The problem is, the Scottish Government published this law three hours before it was introduced.

“There was no consultation with disability groups, no taking into account how it would affect them.

"The guidance is confusing, and doesn't make it clear that we don't need medical evidence to prove we are exempt."

Daniel, from Glasgow, says he was desperate to get out and about after being cooped up at home since the end of February.

He has been relishing the easing of restrictions but was not prepared for the amount of people who would challenge him in the street or in shops over his lack of PPE.

Daniel said: “I’m not jumping on the anti-face mask bandwagon here, I just believe people with disabilities who are exempt have the right not to be harassed going about their lives.

“Disabled people are not lepers, we are not going out there to spread the virus, and if staff and other customers are wearing their face masks, they have nothing to worry about, they are protected.

“So I’m just trying to raise a bit of awareness as we all try to get back to a bit of normality because it has been a lonely time for all of us and it’s not fair that some are feeling worry about finally getting to go into shops.”

Daniel, who runs the Disability Law Centre in Glasgow, has been using his organisation’s Facebook page to raise awareness and call shops out for discriminatory treatment.

He has also stepped in when he has witnessed harassment of others.

He added: “I have intervened in a number of incidents and I try to help as much as I can.

“Last week a security guard at a shop in Glasgow was trying to stop a young girl from entering because she didn’t have a mask, even though she was explaining why she couldn't wear one.

“He was intimidating her and I was not happy with his tone to this young girl, another woman said it was disgusting, so I took it up with management and they apologised profusely.

“But we can’t be there to see all these incidents unfold.”

Proof of exemption is also not a suitable solution to the issue, according to Daniel.

He said: “Things like exemption lanyards or so called medical evidence will not work.

“If you put a lanyard on, it’s like putting a big disability sticker on you forehead.

“All we can do for now is raise awareness because the system right now is not working.

“It makes me wary to go out but I will continue to live my life and try to help others do the same.”

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “As the First Minister has said, no one should be abused or treated in an unacceptable way and those exempt under the regulations should not be made to wear a face covering or denied access to shops.

"Retailers can ask people to wear a face covering, but should be understanding when people tell them they are exempt and we do not expect staff to enforce the wearing of face coverings.

“The guidance on the use of face coverings by the public is contained in the Phase 3 Staying Safe and Protecting others guidance on the Scottish Government website.

This makes clear that it may not be appropriate for those who have a health condition or for disabled people to wear a face covering.

“For those who are not exempt, it is now mandatory to wear a face covering on public transport and in shops or other retail outlets, and we expect face coverings to be worn when in an enclosed public space where it is difficult to maintain two metres physical distance and where there is a risk of close contact with multiple people you do not usually meet.”

Find out more about Daniel's campaign to promote awareness of hidden disabilities here

CaffiSaliMali · 21/07/2020 19:59

That's awful Helena.

I'm pleased be was able to stand up for the young woman being denied access to a shop, but it does beg the question of how often this is happening. This must have happened to people who didn't have a Daniel nearby to come and support them, perhaps people who weren't able to buy something they really needed.

And how many more are simply staying at home because they're not confident trying to access services without a mask?

HeIenaDove · 22/07/2020 01:34

Friday outside our local Tesco will be interesting. Loads of ppl donning face masks to go in while the three pubs ajacent to the store will have people in and out , no social distancing with no face masks.

Will look like a scene from a dystopian drama. The supermarket where you can catch Covid19 and the pubs where you cant catch it.

HeIenaDove · 22/07/2020 01:35

I hate to think @CaffiSaliMali

HeIenaDove · 22/07/2020 02:08

46 attacks on disabled people already for not wearing masks

From twitter
Video and thread.

twitter.com/transportforall/status/1285615607744995329?s=20

Fuckinellitsme · 22/07/2020 08:41

Sorry I went AWOL there, Monday morning saw a wisdom tooth extraction so that's been fun! Also confirmation after a load of X rays that the pain/numbing/burning etc is definitely not dental and a resurgence of the TN. I haven't been able to speak for 2 days (blessed relief some may say) but today I've got to phone my GP and sort some new meds.

Brilliant posts as ever, @LangClegsInSpace and @HelenaDove.

One of my local transport companies posted in Facebook on Monday about compulsory mask wearing and of course the thread was overtaken by people going on about selfish non wearers, ban them all etc. I contacted the company and asked if they would do something to raise awareness of those who are exempt, as many of us are scared to travel due to the abuse and judgement. They said that they are doing all they can to stop this and they would look at how to raise awareness, and in the meantime if anyone receives any abuse or comments to tell a member of staff who would deal with it.

And I've just seen this in my local paper from Aldi, as part of an announcement re mask wearing/Covid safe procedure in-store. So that's a relief, especially as I do most of my shopping there at the moment.

Sadly though DD saw a sign at Heron yesterday saying all customers were required to wear masks. I'll tweet them later to ask for clarification. DD has taken to coming everywhere with me as she's worried I'm going to get bother - she always wears a masks (so she says it's clear we're not anti-maskers) and is 6ft 2 in her platform Docs 😂 My bodyguard!

A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO
OP posts:
canigooutyet · 22/07/2020 11:14

Regardless of the transport company, please report directly to them.

My youngest has asked me if I go out of our local area, let him know and he will come with me for the same reasons @Fuckinellitsme
It's nothing I have mentioned before to him. When I asked where this had come from, he's heard all the anger towards the unmasked and some of these people could turn violent.

He doesn't need that extra stress. I can mostly handle the negative stuff, but him as a young teen cannot. And this is one thing that really annoys me, the negativities towards the unmasked also drags their loved ones into it. I told him it's not aimed at people like me.

But as we all know there's often a lack of clarity about who the rage is aimed at other than the unmasked, and he was very quick to point this out.

@helenadove that is shocking, and thank you for bringing all of these to everyone's attention.

Plimpy · 22/07/2020 17:13

@Helena dove

46 people already? That's atrocious. Witch hunt indeed.
Well done, judgemental mask-zealots, well done.

HeIenaDove · 22/07/2020 20:40

it gets better folks Cressida Dick..........the gift that keeps on giving.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/facemasks-cressida-dick-police/
The Commissioner of the Met Police has told LBC that shopkeepers can call the police if people are refusing to wear a facemask in their stores.

From Friday, everyone must wear a face covering in shops in England or face a fine. It is already mandatory in Scotland.

One shopkeeper phoned Call The Commissioner on LBC to ask whether the Met would police the wearing of masks.

And Dame Cressida insisted that officers would assist if shopkeepers were concerned about an incident as the law comes in.

She told Nick Ferrari: "Our approach to the regulations throughout has been to only use enforcement as a last resort. So when people were highly restricted on going out, we were out talking to them and the vast, vast majority did comply

As I understand, the vast majority are complying in wearing masks on public transport.

"We will be working with the retail trade right across London. They employed security guards and they managed to keep social distancing and sensible queueing. They've only called us rarely to assist and that is what I hope happens here.

"Calling the police should be a last resort for dealing with a mask issue. But the law is a law.

"If you've tried everything and you can't get the person out of the store and they're getting aggressive, yes of course you should call the police.

"My hope is that the vast majority of people will comply and people will be shamed into leaving the store.

"If somebody is concerned about what's going on in their store, then yes, of course they should call the police and we will try to assist

Video in link

canigooutyet · 22/07/2020 20:44

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710212241.htm

Talks about "covidiot' and that reluctance to wear one is down to working memory capacity. After reading this, I wonder what the term is for those wearing a mask but unable to socially distance themselves or follow any of the other guidelines.

Individual differences in working memory capacity can predict social distancing compliance just as well as some social factors such as personality traits," Zhang said. "This suggests policy makers will need to consider individuals' general cognitive abilities when promoting compliance behaviors such as wearing a mask or engaging in physical distancing."

canigooutyet · 22/07/2020 20:52

Aldi and Sainsbury's won't be enforcing mask wearing. Tesco's will have them on sale near the doors for people who have forgot.

www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/1313078/tesco-sainsburys-aldi-face-mask-policy-rules-uk

SecretSpAD · 22/07/2020 20:56

Have just done a quick google and it looks like Sainsburys and some other supermarkets are saying that they will not be challenging people without face masks and will recognise the sunflower lanyard....best news I've had all week!! Waitrose also seem to be honouring those of us with exemptions as well. Phew 😅

SecretSpAD · 22/07/2020 20:57

Whoops cross posted there!

canigooutyet · 22/07/2020 20:58

Not all police forces will be enforcing it. The paper also had a poll, over half the readers don't think fines should be issued. (featured in many others news media)

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1312521/face-mask-rules-uk-mandatory-shops-england-face-masks-poll-police

fuckinellitsme · 23/07/2020 09:03

Tweeted lots of companies yesterday and all said they wouldn't challenge non-wearers. The only response that was a bit Hmm was from Co-op - is it just me or is the talk of health and safety/the police a little bit like they're saying we won't challenge you, but we'll call the police?

A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO
OP posts:
Fuckinellitsme · 23/07/2020 09:06

Also this is a little worrying. We can expect to be asked to leave Intu shopping centres it seems, unless we're under 11 or have disabilities or breathing problems. No mention of hidden disabilities. I've tweeted them for clarification.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/face-mask-rules-metrocentre-eldon-18643986

OP posts:
BamboozledandBefuddled · 23/07/2020 09:08

@Fuckinellitsme I'd read it as 'It's the police's job not ours' rather than a threat to call the police.

Hope your teeth/the TN are settling down and that you're feeling better Flowers

Fuckinellitsme · 23/07/2020 09:14

[quote BamboozledandBefuddled]@Fuckinellitsme I'd read it as 'It's the police's job not ours' rather than a threat to call the police.

Hope your teeth/the TN are settling down and that you're feeling better Flowers[/quote]
Ah that's good! As Friday gets closer I'm getting more and more worried and possibly reading too much into things 😂

My mouth is double sore after a wisdom tooth extraction on Monday and the TN (lots of X rays also on Monday just to confirm that this latest round of pain has no dental cause and no, it doesn't, but I sort of knew that!). On the plus side, I get to eat ice cream and buttery mash every day, so it could be very much worse! And I talked to my GP yesterday, he's trying me on Amitriptyline as the Tegretol made me so sick. I've taken it before for pain and I looove how well I sleep on it, so I'm happy to take it again. Thanks for asking 💐

OP posts:
CaffiSaliMali · 23/07/2020 09:38

Amitriptyline is good news OP, I have been on it for chronic pain for years and love how it improves my sleep. After a lifetime of sleep issues starting Amitriptyline at 22 was a godsend.

My DH wants me to try wearing a covering more inside to see how long I can manage so am going to be giving that a go today. Someone on another thread said that taking a puff on their reliever inhaler first seems to help so will give that a go!

Otherwise I will continue to avoid shops and public transport for as long as possible.

BamboozledandBefuddled · 23/07/2020 15:19

Now that the guidance has been issued for wearing face covering in shops, people who are exempt might find the government's stance on this a bit reassuring.

From the BBC: 'Downing Street has said it does not expect members of the public to report people not wearing masks in shops from Friday due to voluntary take-up of the policy.

Boris Johnson’s official spokesman said: "You've seen over the course of recent months the British public have voluntarily chosen to follow the guidance because they want to help slow the spread of the virus and I'm sure that will be the case with face coverings as well.

"With shops, we would expect them to give advice to customers and remind them that they should be wearing a face covering and I'm sure the overwhelming majority of the public will do so."

Those not wearing their masks properly over both mouth and nose will be "advised as to the right and safest way to wear a face mask" rather than be immediately fined up to £100 for non-compliance, he said, adding: "That would be the sensible approach.”'

The official line is clearly to take a very softly-softly approach. It would be nice if the public did the same but that's probably too much to hope for.