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A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO

383 replies

Fuckinellitsme · 16/07/2020 18:14

Following on from the first thread here

Thank you to all the lovely posters who have shared their experiences on the first thread. It's been incredibly useful in understanding why some people are exempt from wearing a mask on transport, in shops and so on. Particularly in terms of learning about health conditions that aren't widely known, and also the psychological reasons for exemption. Some incredibly brave posters on that thread for whom I am full of admiration.

For those who need them exemption lanyards are available here

Sunflower lanyards can also be picked up for free at several large supermarkets, including Sainsbury's and Asda.

If anyone feels they want/are able to share their reasons for exemption, please do - it may help others to understand why many people can't wear masks, and also (if the last thread is anything to go by) is useful for educating the rest of us on conditions we're not familiar with.

Stay safe all 💐

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Willow2017 · 07/08/2020 01:06

@NewNewt

Why does it need another thread? Wear a mask of you can. Download a lanyard if you genuinely can't so people don't judge you. Done.
You would think eh?

Check out other threads on here to see how much judging and disabslist comments are commonplace.

Fuckinellitsme · 07/08/2020 17:05

Hello all Smile How is everyone? I hope we're all having a calm, pain and harassment free day and enjoying the weather (if heat is your thing. Personally I look like a melted blancmange).

Sorry for neglecting this thread - I've had quite the couple of weeks what with a wisdom tooth extraction, RA and TN flares (because I never do things by halves, me) and getting used to my new meds. Actually I love them, I'm sleeping like a baby but it does mean I'm sparko by about 8.30pm! I had TWELVE HOURS sleep the other night. Twas magical.

But I digress.

I see that Nicola Sturgeon has banned the use of visors unless they're worn with masks from tomorrow! It seems that the Scottish government have (rather sensibly) decided that they don't offer enough protection by themselves. The gov.uk website has already explicitly stated that cloth coverings should be worn with no mention of visors being permitted/acceptable but still they're touted on every thread like this as an alternative for those of us who can't wear masks. Quite apart from the fact lots of us can't wear visors either, it was always pretty clear they were just a way of looking as if you were trying to do the right thing. Let's hope people now stop suggesting them or worse still, getting all shirty because people unable to wear masks aren't wearing visors.

How are we all getting on in shops etc? It's not been too bad here. Staff in shops, on transport etc have been lovely. The general public notsomuch but judgy glares, tuts and headshakes really show them up for the ignorant arses they are. I've been wearing my sunflower lanyard and have seen a few others wearing them, too - there have been a few smiles of solidarity!

There was a couple in Aldi yesterday who were doing the usual stare/tut/obviously talking about me thing - DD said to me just a little too loudly on purpose 'They seem rather judgemental for people wearing pyjamas in the supermarket at 3 o'clock in the afternoon' 🤣

OP posts:
Fuckinellitsme · 07/08/2020 17:11

@NewNewt

Why does it need another thread? Wear a mask of you can. Download a lanyard if you genuinely can't so people don't judge you. Done.
If you read the last thread with its ignorance, discrimination and out and out ableism, you'll understand why.

Incidentally the lanyards/exemption cards are freely available for anyone to purchase/download, which is why lots of people (mainly the general public - shop/transport staff seem a bit more enlightened thankfully) often don't judge them as 'proof'. If they even know what a sunflower lanyard symbolises anyway. Also it's worth remembering that the government has stated that nobody should be asked for proof of exemption or be questioned about their medical history. And there's no definitive proof anyway - no 'official' document, and GPs aren't writing exemption notes.

OP posts:
GetOffYourHighHorse · 07/08/2020 17:27

'There was a couple in Aldi yesterday who were doing the usual stare/tut/obviously talking about me thing - DD said to me just a little too loudly on purpose 'They seem rather judgemental for people wearing pyjamas in the supermarket at 3 o'clock in the afternoon'

Oh op this makes your dd as bad as others. You've no idea if they have hidden disabilities that make dressing a problem have you?

Let's not challenge anyone in shops. I do judge others myself I admit, but I wouldn't glare, tut or comment.

Fuckinellitsme · 07/08/2020 17:59

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'There was a couple in Aldi yesterday who were doing the usual stare/tut/obviously talking about me thing - DD said to me just a little too loudly on purpose 'They seem rather judgemental for people wearing pyjamas in the supermarket at 3 o'clock in the afternoon'

Oh op this makes your dd as bad as others. You've no idea if they have hidden disabilities that make dressing a problem have you?

Let's not challenge anyone in shops. I do judge others myself I admit, but I wouldn't glare, tut or comment.

But surely if they had hidden disabilities themselves they shouldn't have been so judgemental of others who may have them?
OP posts:
Judethe0bscure · 07/08/2020 18:07

But surely if they had hidden disabilities themselves they shouldn't have been so judgemental of others who may have them?

This is a bit like who watches the watchmen ....

GetOffYourHighHorse · 07/08/2020 18:56

'Incidentally the lanyards/exemption cards are freely available for anyone to purchase/download, which is why lots of people (mainly the general public - shop/transport staff seem a bit more enlightened thankfully) often don't judge them as 'proof''

Yes this is the issue really they are so readily available so credibility is a problem. Gps of course couldn't take it on, but I do wonder if hcas or similar in a practice couldn't have been given the task of issuing exemption notes based on simple criteria such as the person has a significant medical or psychological condition where using a thin face cover for a brief shopping trip would be detrimental.

Again, I wouldn't challenge anyone (or mock people in PJs in Aldi) but face covers are uncomfortable for everyone to wear.

HeIenaDove · 09/08/2020 01:27

@LangClegsInSpace I missed this one last week Saw a link to the vid on another thread on here. Man abuses woman on train platform for not wearing a mask

graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/face-covering-public-transport-rules/

Xenia · 09/08/2020 07:39

The exemption includes severe distress. Only the person can know if they suffer that - they may never have seen a doctor in their life. If you suffer that you are exempt and if you want to you can print off an exemption badge and put it on a string round your neck. In my view having read the legislation not even shop staff can ask what the exemption is under which you fall. If you were taken to court then you might have to prove the severe distress feeling which I suppose could be proven by putting a mask on you and taking your temperature, heart rate and that kind of thing but as long as you feel that way you are exempt.

DarkMintChocolate · 09/08/2020 11:49

But surely if they had hidden disabilities themselves they shouldn't have been so judgemental of others who may have them?

Depends on what those disabilities are! Some people do not understand the concept of white lies - they tell the truth as they see it, with no regard for other people’s feelings. Some have rigid thinking and are very rule driven - so, if at their house, people only wear pyjamas to bed, then as far they concerned, that is the rule, and wearing pyjamas to a supermarket would be beyond their comprehension!

That is why they are in the category of hidden disabilities!

HeIenaDove · 10/08/2020 17:58

This young woman has waived her anonymity to talk about this after receiving no response from her MP.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/10/survivors-say-they-are-being-stigmatised-for-not-wearing-masks

Rape survivors say they are being stigmatised for not wearing masks
Campaigners say survivors are being castigated despite fact that covering face can trigger flashbacks and panic attacks

When Georgina Fallows even contemplates putting on a mask, the flashbacks to her rape can be overwhelming and debilitating. She is not alone.

Rape survivors are among those voicing deep concerns about the stigma and ensuing “mask rage” attached to not wearing a face covering in shops, on transport and in other public places, prompting calls for better recognition of legitimate reasons why people are exempt.

A number of rape and sexual abuse survivors have told the charity Rape Crisis they are so scared of being confronted and verbally abused for not wearing face masks that they are avoiding places where they may be challenged.

“A significant proportion of rape survivors had their mouths or noses covered, or were choked or smothered, as part of the abuse and violence they experienced,” said Kate Russell, the national spokesperson for Rape Crisis England and Wales. “Covering their face and nose now can trigger flashbacks, panic attacks and severe anxiety.”

Severe distress is recognised by the government as a reason for a legal exemption from the mandatory use of face coverings. But rape victims still fear they will be castigated.

Russell said: “There’s a lot of assumptions that people who aren’t wearing face masks are behaving that way because they’re selfish, stupid, careless or a combination of all three. This lack of awareness is creating legitimate anxiety among rape survivors that if they go out and about they might not be met with empathy and care.”

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Fallows, a 29-year-old solicitor, suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and cannot bear to have her mouth covered, years after her experience of rape.

“For part of my rape, he had his hand over my mouth. As a result, anything over my mouth – even an oxygen mask – can trigger a flashback. And that is hugely distressing. Physically, it feels like I’m back there again and he’s raping me and I am dying,” she said.

The distress she suffers amid flashbacks can be so severe that paramedics have felt it necessary to call the police to hold her down so they can sedate her. “It’s absolutely horrendous. I would like to be able to wear a mask, not just for my own health, but because I don’t want to make other people feel uncomfortable. But even the thought of putting on a mask makes me very, very, very panicky.”

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When she tried to get her hair cut after lockdown, another customer interrogated her about her lack of a mask, refusing to accept Fallows’ reply that she was exempt.

“She told me that was ridiculous and said I had no proof. I cried all the way home. She truly believed that I was a self-centred, ignorant girl who didn’t give a shit about anybody else. I felt completely worthless.”

Since then, whenever she has tried to go to an enclosed public space without a mask, she has been challenged. She is now avoiding all shops and public transport which, since she has no car, is severely restricting where she can go. “I can’t see my family, who live two hours away. If I want to go anywhere, I have to walk.”

She fears this could leave her vulnerable to another attack – she was dragged off the street by her rapist – and so spends a lot of time alone in her bedroom. “I’ve tried so hard to rejoin life again, as it were. But it feels like it has all been taken away again

She contacted her MP, local councillor and mayor to urge them to mount a public awareness campaign about the legitimate reasons for mask exemptions, but received no response.

She has waived her right to anonymity to raise awareness. “People feel like they have the right to challenge you, and that is awful. You wouldn’t look at me and know I’d been raped, but I was, and it’s a huge problem for me. I spend most of my time trying to forget what happened to me. I don’t need to be challenged about this three or four times a day, just trying to live my life. All it does is remind me of something I’m desperately trying to forget.”

Rape Crisis wants shops and public transport companies to display signs and remind customers there are legitimate reasons people may not be wearing masks, which may not always be visible or obvious, and discourage customers from challenging each other.

The Oxfordshire Sexual Abuse and Rape Crisis Centre has compiled a list of ways in which some survivors of sexual violence have found it possible to wear face coverings.

“The list offers support and advice for survivors around face coverings and how they can perhaps make the experience of wearing a face covering less traumatic,” said Russell. She urged any survivor who is distressed or concerned about wearing a face mask to get in touch with Rape Crisis nationally or a local service.

SimplySteveRedux · 16/08/2020 12:05

Georgina is a very brave woman and it's fantastic she is pursuing this.

In relation to my incident with the NHS I received an email from the Senior Nurse Consultant whose response was akin to victim blaming and that staff are entitled to effectively interrogate people refusing to wear a mask. She did not care that I was forced to reveal intimate details of my rape, in public, and they are entitled to do so. She cares not this is disability discrimination and even ended her email with "I hope you have recovered from your injury". I almost wrote back with "The broken hand or the mental distress your staff are directly responsible for?". Instead I wrote back with details of how they are contravening the Equality Act and partaking in disability discrimination and how it's both harrowing and scary this is happening in a healthcare environment, I included links to support my claims, I have received no reply.

I have been speaking to Stephen from law or fiction and have agreed for my experience to be detailed in an article due to be released in the next couple of weeks. I have also agreed to waive my anonymity because I passionately believe in my case and if I can save just one person from the same harrowing experience I suffered it will be most worthwhile. I'm also in the process of detailing my experience on my website and Medium.

I'm contemplating my next move, because I am taking this as far as I can. An email to my MP is on my list for today and deciding whether to take this to Trust level, or higher. I'm also totally committed to instigating legal action if I need to, not because I'd like monetary compensation for my experience, but because I am totally committed to this path, wherever it may lead.

(My threads under the username Maskwoes, I really couldn't care less if I get identified).

DarkMintChocolate · 16/08/2020 14:33

I suggest you take the matter up with the Equality and Human Rights Commission. They may know of other people, who have made similar complaints.

See their letter to the British Retail Consortium - not being on this subject exactly, but still warning about the lack of reasonable adjustments for the disabled during the pandemic:

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/news/coronavirus-pandemic-equality-and-human-rights-considerations-access-food-and

They refer to about 300 people looking to take action against retailers with a firm of solicitors.

(DH has found several times that ringing head offices of retailers and asking to speak to the Legal Dept. is quite effective because lawyers understand the legal points straightaway; or emailing the Chief Executive and making it clear they are now personally responsible (ie they cannot hide behind layers of bureaucracy and make out they don’t know what underlings are doing); it will be their name all over the media and their job on the line!)

We never find our MP much use! (As he is a true blue)

Leigh Day are a leading firm of solicitors in the field of Human rights, although there will be others.

EpidermolysisBullosa · 16/08/2020 15:18

Sorry that you didn't get a good response. Am glad you are being supported though and agree that contacting the EHRC is a good shout, as is having an article about your experience.

SimplySteveRedux · 16/08/2020 15:26

Yes, the EHRC is a good call, they had slipped my mind. Thanks!

DarkMintChocolate · 16/08/2020 17:43

I had a look at Fry Law’s website (the firm mentioned in the EHRC page on retailers.

Off topic, but this may be helpful to anybody, who has been refused access to a hospital, to support a disabled person:

www.frylaw.co.uk/archives/articles/fleurs-challenge-to-the-nhs-visitor-guidance/

EpidermolysisBullosa · 19/08/2020 11:06

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-53827911

A story about someone exempt from wearing a mask who suffered from a panic attack when challenged and no longer feels comfortable going out Sad

HeIenaDove · 21/08/2020 00:09

@SimplySteveRedux Flowers

EpidermolysisBullosa · 04/09/2020 11:25

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8697125/Shocking-moment-bully-police-officer-PEPPER-SPRAYS-rail-passenger-resisting-arrest.html

The passenger was asked to wear a mask by a police officer, said he couldn't as he is exempt for medical reasons and eventually got pepper sprayed for resisting arrest after the situation escalated.

HeIenaDove · 13/09/2020 19:50

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54075771?at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=D344D7DC-F26D-11EA-81F3-D58C96E8478F&at_custom3=BBC+News&at_custom2=facebook_page&fbclid=IwAR0LfSd8FJMpjC7aN34X-H_-lU1qItChlkA2MkKQyKi7DkGo7BbWp8FpnyI

Coronavirus: Man with chronic asthma 'forced' to wear mask on plane
By Anna Collinson
Health correspondent

A man with serious breathing issues says he was "ambushed" into wearing a face covering on a plane.

EasyJet has apologised after one of its pilots was filmed threatening to remove the passenger from the flight.

The man was carrying an exemption card - but it was rejected by the crew on his journey from Jersey to Gatwick.

Face coverings on UK public transport are mandatory but some people are allowed not to wear them, due to age, health or disability reasons.

Wearing a face covering is "strongly recommended" on the Island of Jersey, but certain groups are allowed not to wear them, including those with breathing difficulties.

The BBC has also been told of cases where people with lung conditions have been turned away from shops and other types of public transport because they were unable to wear a mask.

Charities say exemptions must be respected by companies and understood by the public.

With masks now a part of daily life, the challenge for many is striking a balance between safety procedures and protecting vulnerable people

Nick says he can't wear anything around his face or neck because he has chronic asthma.

"Whether it's a polo neck or a scarf round your face, the sensation is stifling. I just find it increasingly difficult to breathe," he says. "It's like a steel belt round my chest."

Research suggests face coverings can help reduce the spread of coronavirus, particularly indoors where physical distancing is difficult.

The Department for Transport for England says those who are exempt can choose to carry a card, badge or a homemade sign.

However, providing documentation is a personal choice and not necessary in law.

Storm of abuse'
Nick had printed off an official exemption card from the government's website before flying to the island of Jersey to see his family in August.

The card was accepted on the flight out, but on the return journey the crew said it was not valid and he would have to wear a mask.

Nick refused. He says: "The staff came to speak to me around six times. The 30-minute delay was seen as my fault and each visit whipped up more hostility among the passengers.

"I was insulted, shouted at, laughed at. It felt like everybody was against me."

Nick says he became so desperate he started filming on his phone.

Footage shows the pilot refusing to accept his exemption card and saying if Nick didn't put on a mask, he "was off".

Nick eventually agreed, but says it caused him to hyperventilate during the hour-long flight.

"I would do anything to avoid wearing anything that restricts my breathing. That's more terrifying than being insulted by 100 passengers, but eventually I felt like I had no choice."

Shaken by the "storm of abuse" he says he received from other passengers, Nick requested partial anonymity when speaking to the BBC.

EasyJet says all customers are required to wear a face covering but acknowledges some passengers may not be able to.

A statement from the airline said: "We have recently updated our policies in line with recent UK government guidance so that as well as a medical certificate, customers can alternatively provide a relevant document from a government website or lanyard.

"We are sorry that this new policy was not recognised by the crew on this occasion."

The airline described Nick's behaviour as "disruptive", but a passenger, who did not want to be named, said he behaved "calmly" in a "stressful situation".

"No-one seemed to care about his condition. The staff should have taken him away from the other passengers to have the conversation in private," he tells the BBC.

Impossible to breathe'
Asthma UK and the British Lung Foundation called Nick's story a distressing case, but says there are others like him.

"The government is really clear there are exemptions from wearing a mask," explains Head of Policy, Sarah MacFadyen.

"The vast majority of people with lung conditions are fine wearing a mask, but for a small number it is impossible for them to breathe. That's why these exemptions are in place, so they can still go out and live their lives.

Monkeynuts18 · 13/09/2020 20:41

Some of these stories are just horrendous.

I don’t understand it. I don’t understand why it brings out the worst in people.

The thing that really baffles me is why people struggle so much with understanding the law. Some people are exempt from wearing a mask. They don’t have to ‘prove’ they’re exempt - in part because that would place a needless strain on the NHS and in part because it’s breach of their privacy.

It really is that simple. I can’t believe businesses like EasyJet haven’t understood that.

zobalina77 · 23/09/2020 15:29

Hi, I know this thread is a little old but everyone was so kind when I posted on it before. I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse during which I was gagged and suffocated so I can not wear a mask or visor. I have tried getting therapy but it's proving difficult at the moment. I work in a large supermarket and everyone has been great about me being exempt until now. I've just had a call from my manager saying from tomorrow it is now compulsory for us to wear masks on the shop floor, no exemptions. I can be maskless on a till but have to wear a mask to enter the store, clock in and walk to my till. I've tried to tell my manager that this is impossible but she didn't really get it. I don't know what to do, guess I'm out of a job. Surely this is discriminatory?

HeIenaDove · 23/09/2020 15:43

@zobalina77 Im afraid clap for key workers has become crap on key workers.

As evidenced when i replied to a supermarket worker on Twitter yesterday I got some very nasty replies as did he.

Some copy and pastes.

"Then retail staff should suck it up, wear one and be grateful they have their jobs as another lockdown will mean thousands will lose their job"

"I was clapping for the NHS, not for Karen who’s been sat behind a Perspex screen scanning my groceries at the till"

"Do you suggest that anyone who wants shouldn't follow the rules? Because if you are a disabled person with a condition that means you can't wear a mask for a limited time in a shop; well...........who is the most likely to die from allowing more spread of the virus"

"Article makes about as much sense as the average TRA spiel. We're all having to make massive sacrifices. The tiny minority of disabled people who actually can't wear a mask can carry a letter from their doctors to explain the situation. Life is hard; particularly in a pandemic"

"Then I think for their own protection, they need a scarlet letter. Because 'winter is coming'. And the measures announced earlier are a joke. No way will it counter kids in school, and students in uni. Two demos not known for their maturity. Sink or swim is govt. message"

HeIenaDove · 23/09/2020 15:48

Are you a member of USDAW