A little more understanding to those not wearing masks THREAD TWO

[Fuckinellitsme]

Following on from the first thread here

Thank you to all the lovely posters who have shared their experiences on the first thread. It's been incredibly useful in understanding why some people are exempt from wearing a mask on transport, in shops and so on. Particularly in terms of learning about health conditions that aren't widely known, and also the psychological reasons for exemption. Some incredibly brave posters on that thread for whom I am full of admiration.

For those who need them exemption lanyards are available here

Sunflower lanyards can also be picked up for free at several large supermarkets, including Sainsbury's and Asda.

If anyone feels they want/are able to share their reasons for exemption, please do - it may help others to understand why many people can't wear masks, and also (if the last thread is anything to go by) is useful for educating the rest of us on conditions we're not familiar with.

Stay safe all 💐

@Shadow01 I'm so sorry you've had a similar experience. I've also ordered a hidden disability lanyard, hope it helps. You stay strong too.

@Fuckinellitsme I've got a couple of close work friends who I know would be really supportive, but don't want to put them in the position of hearing about it. I worry that our friendship would alter if they know. Though they would probably feel sad that I think that way.

THank you op for starting another thread.
It is important that these issues are talked about, I don't mean the reasons behind the exemption essentially, but the whole thing.

BoJo and clowns have also made store staff exempt from wearing them, so staff could possibly say it's in the government guidelines not to wear one, @zobalina77

And stories from yourself and others just highlights more why details shouldn't be demanded to be given over.

Realistically the 16.6 million disabled, and the 1 in 6 with MH could just as easily say sod it, my choice I am not wearing one, and no I am not showing you evidence. I will take my fine and appeal it.

How many from these groups are "silenced" on a daily basis and often by each other - well I have X and I can do x,y and z so should you - negating that's person's personal experience of living with X.

Or you're exempt, so why you joining in the conversation etc.

@Fuckinellitsme

My reason for exemption is a condition called Trigeminal Neuralgia. It's sometimes referred to as the 'suicide disease'. It can be triggered by even the lightest touch to the face, and often by nothing at all. Common triggers for me include hair brushing, washing/touching/putting make-up on my face, a breeze, cold, getting dressed, cleaning my teeth, dental work, kissing, eating... etc etc! It can go into remission, but never goes away and always gets worse with time, and when it's active I can have thousands of attacks a day. They are so painful I lose consciousness and have been known to have the odd 'accident' which isn't great - thankfully that's only happened at home so far. There is drug therapy available but over time its efficacy decreases and brain surgery is required. I'm a little way away from that yet but it's quite scary knowing it will happen one day - but also in some ways exciting, because surgery means being pain free for several years if it's successful. Unfortunately the symptoms usually return after time.

When I wore a mask last week I had the first full attack I've had in months, and when I tried to put a lighter scarf around my face the same thing happened. I was in bed for most of last week as a result and the attacks are still continuing. I've contacted my local bus company and they've confirmed that TN is a legitimate reason for exemption.

I would love to be able to wear a mask and am so grateful to those who do (I also have rheumatoid arthritis so am higher risk - therefore I honestly appreciate all who can wear masks doing so). A face shield/visor is not suitable either, due to the pressure on my head.

Sorry if you were on the other thread and have seen all this already!

My late husband had this crippling condition, so I completely and utterly sympathise with you OP. On his last visit with the maxillofacial (spelling)? consultant, he was told about an injection into the nerve, which may have provided at least a year free from attacks, or maybe permanent freedom. There is a chance that there will be side effects with this treatment, but DH was prepared to give it a go, as the pain was so severe, and the carbamazepine he was prescribed brought him out in a rash from head to foot.

Perhaps this could work for you?

Sadly, a cancer diagnosis (completely unrelated) resulted in his death very shortly afterwards.

Fingers crossed for a peaceful reasonable me-rail free thread op

Thank you for new thread

After the last one I am going to wait a bit before I post "properly" as I'm actually more upset than I thought I was. That thread being so badly derailed makes me feel a bit dismissed and as though my reasons/experience are really unimportant and that I'm selfish to feel the way I do.

I know I shouldn't feel that way and the vast majority of you were lovely but it's the loudest voice you always remember isn't it. Hopefully this thread will be different. Sorry I'm not engaging properly and to all who have been brave enough to post so far...

Hopefully this thread will be positive and peaceful.

Glad you've done another thread, hope this one is not derailed by certain people.
I think you need to remember most people understand and if you get one that doesn't and you will just ignore them.
You can't argue with the stupid .

Realistically the 16.6 million disabled, and the 1 in 6 with MH could just as easily say sod it, my choice I am not wearing one, and no I am not showing you evidence. I will take my fine and appeal it.

Why would you do that if your disability or health condition had no bearing on your ability to wear a mask? It just makes it harder for those who genuinely can't wear one.

If the fixed penalty notices work the same way as the lockdown ones, there is no way to appeal the fine, you either pay it or you get prosecuted.

The regs say a reasonable excuse is if you cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a disability or health condition. Good luck in court if you try to claim you can't wear a mask because of a completely unrelated disability.

So many women must be affected by this

My psychiatrist says it's a horrifically common theme amongst the women he treats for PTSD.

@Shadow01 thank you for posting. As with @zobalina77 I cannot imagine what you must be going through. Please, remember that you are legitimately exempt from wearing a mask - your employer cannot insist you do so. The prime minister himself has said that masks are not mandatory for shop staff.

It's absolutely shocking that survivors of abuse and sexual violence are having their suffering compounded in this way 💐

@zobalina77 the fact that you think your friends would feel sad at the idea that you felt you couldn't confide in them suggests that they would be a sympathetic and supportive ear - if you do feel at all able to talk to them and ask for support, then do, but of course do nothing that makes you feel uncomfortable or distressed.

As I said to Shadow though, masks aren't mandatory for shop staff (the PM himself said so) and proof of exemption is not required, so simply stating you're exempt ought to be enough. Shame on any manager who labours the issue.

@Fuckinellitsme I also have TN and it's horrific when I have an attack. I** have a mask and will attempt to wear it, but not at the expense of having a flare up. I'm only just recovering from the last one (that lasted from March to the end of June), that also threw a few hemaplegic migraines in just for good measure.

Visors seem to be touted as a bit of a magic bullet by those insisting there must be a solution for those who are exempt! But in many cases they're completely unsuitable and yes, don't offer a great deal of protection to others anyway.

Yes, visors don't do much at all because they're too open. Same with 'can't you just wear a very light thin scarf?' and similar suggestions. I also seem to recall someone suggesting some sort of hat with something dangling from it?

These kinds of suggestions have little to do with public health because they are useless. They are about box-ticking and making sure nobody gets away without 'at least trying' / 'making an effort'.

'Have you tried drawing one on with face paint?'

If the fixed penalty notices work the same way as the lockdown ones, there is no way to appeal the fine, you either pay it or you get prosecuted

As with all fines, there is an appeal process (first link from many available.) It will be a pain of course, just like other fines

www.itv.com/news/2020-04-01/coronavirus-lockdown-rules-how-do-i-appeal-against-a-police-fine/

@sotiredofthislonelylife I was told about the injection, too - however I was only diagnosed about two years ago and was told that treatments other than drugs are for 'down the road', when the drugs have stopped working. I'm on the same medication as your late DH and yes, the side effects are absolutely awful. At the moment I only have to take them when the disease is active and I've been in remission for a little while (until last week) - however the periods of remission are getting shorter, as I was told they would.

Thank you for posting, and I'm so sorry for your loss 💐

Thanks for the new thread

This is my fourth attempt to post in here - the first three left me in tears so I'm just going to grit my teeth and get on with it. Apologies for any incoherence.

I have three conditions which contribute to me not being able to wear a mask. Claustrophobia - on a scale of 1-10, I'm probably a 5/6. Permanent lung damage after nearly dying from Varicella pneumonia 20 years ago. With one, or possibly both of those a mask might be possible for short periods of time.

Late last year I was diagnosed with multiple-trauma PTSD. The initial trauma was losing our home of over 30 years and most of our possessions to a fire at the start of last year. I don't want to give details of the other (related) trauma but it's relevant to say that it happened at a time when I was wearing a mask.

I have tried to wear a face covering twice. It triggers flashback episodes in glorious technicolour and with full surround sound and has literally left me lying on the floor unable to move or speak, and struggling to breathe. I'm now back to sleeping with bedcovers pushed down to my waist, as if a sheet gets over my face in the night, DH has to wake me from nightmares where I'm suffocating. That's usually followed by full-on hysterics. The work I've put in to rebuild my MH over the last eight months has just been swept away. I don't know if a visor would work but I do know that right now, trying one wouldn't be the best idea.

I think it's reasonable to say that anyone who's been involved in a fire may have genuine difficulty with wearing a face covering but I don't think it's something that people would easily think of.

I'm fairly sure that sooner or later, someone will come along and say I should just stay at home. I'm not prepared to become a prisoner in my own home and lose what's left of my sanity but at present, I'm literally only going out for the weekly supermarket trip. I've been rigorous about maintaining maximum SD, so if people don't like me not wearing a mask, I suggest they do the same.

Now I'm going to have a drink.

The regs also say

if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress

[quote DarkHelmet]**@Fuckinellitsme* I also have TN and it's horrific when I have an attack. I* have a mask and will attempt to wear it, but not at the expense of having a flare up. I'm only just recovering from the last one (that lasted from March to the end of June), that also threw a few hemaplegic migraines in just for good measure. [/quote]
It's the shittiest of the shit isn't it. I'm slap bang in the middle of one now and it's come as a massive shock (no pun intended) because I'd had a lovely period of remission before, apart from the odd twinge and the usual tingling face/burning roof of mouth which are pretty constant for me. To be honest, if I'd been mid-flare I wouldn't have even attempted to wear a mask - experience shows how that would have ended!

Bear in mind that if pressure/touch on your face is a trigger for you, and that's precisely what a mask is, you don't have to run that risk - as I said upthread I've checked with my local bus company (Stagecoach Both East) and they confirmed that TN would be a cause for exemption.

@LangClegsInSpace I think my favourite suggestion from the last thread was that perspex tube that sits on your shoulders and extends over your head. Imagine if it rained! Or, knowing my luck, I'd walk under a tree and a spider would fall into it or something 😂 You can't really fault the imagination of some of the suggestions can you.

If only people would realise - whether they're well-meaning, box-ticky, or just of the 'you're not trying hard enough!' school of thought - that some people simply can't wear face coverings. And what's more, we're exempt and therefore following the rules - you'd think they'd have respect for rule followers given that they're such sticklers for them themselves!

@BamboozledandBefuddled thank you for posting. It was clearly very difficult for you but in doing so you've raised yet another cause for exemption - it would never have occurred to me to think of people suffering PTSD after a fire.

It's just awful that so many people are having to relive such traumatic events as a result of all this. It's an MH crisis that hasn't even been considered, I don't think - the terrible effects of lockdown etc have had a lot of coverage (rightly so) but this is something that has gone unnoticed. But with the current situation re masks it's only doing to get worse.

You don't have to wear a visor if you can't. Please don't do anything which will distress you further. And the biggest bollocks to anyone who suggests you stay at home.

Enjoy your drink. Have two. Or even three 💐

@Fuckinellitsme I can't even sleep on my left side anymore as it's sure to cause a flare during the night. Sometimes just shouting for my dogs or whistling can bring on an attack. It's bloody vile isn't it! After 3 years I've only just been offered proper medication (Nortriptyline) and even then it's hit or miss.

I am willing to try a mask but I'm not willing to cause myself months of pain, so will be removing it if that's the case.

I can't wear a mask as I have stage 4 lung disease (IPF) and struggle to breathe even without a mask. I "unfortunately" look well and healthy, so it is easier to just shop online and keep out of the way of anyone who doesn't know me. Strangers can be unbelievably rude.

And what's more, we're exempt and therefore following the rules - you'd think they'd have respect for rule followers given that they're such sticklers for them themselves!

🤣🤣🤣

But, but all other countries manage without moaning, (even though they also have the same exemptions 😂)

As with all fines, there is an appeal process (first link from many available.) It will be a pain of course, just like other fines

This is not like appealing a parking ticket! There is no formal appeal procedure. If you dispute your fine you will have to argue your case in magistrates court (AKA criminal court) and risk a conviction.

As far as I know there is no way for the person who has been fined to start these proceedings, you just don't pay and await prosecution. If I am wrong about that then the 'appeal procedure' is nothing of the sort, it would simply be an invitation to the police to prosecute. You'd just have filed the initial paperwork for them.

There is no formal right of appeal in the regulations, but councils can set up an appeals procedure if they wish to. So if you disagree that you have broken the law, look at the fixed penalty notice to see if it mentions this.

If there’s no way of appealing, you can challenge the fixed penalty notice by going to court. But if you are convicted, you may have to pay a higher level of fine and will have a criminal record. If you are found not guilty, you won’t.

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/advice_information/coronavirus-criminal-penalties/

Really though, why would you claim you were exempt from wearing a face covering for a completely unrelated disability or health issue in the first place? You would just be making it harder for those who genuinely cannot wear one.

This thread is to encourage understanding and good manners towards people who really actually cannot wear a mask but who would gladly wear one if they could.

There's another thread on here where people are exploring every loophole just because they don't want to wear one. Lots of talk of 'muzzles' and 'sheeple' and 'NWO'. Perhaps that's the thread you are looking for.

@canigooutyet

The regs also say

if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress

Yes, and there have been devastating accounts from posters who experience severe distress when they try to wear a mask, or even think about wearing one.

If that's not you then don't do it.

I know it's not like appealing a parking ticket, I was just pointing out that to say there isn't an appeal process wasn't exactly right. It's not about "exploring" every loophole, but ensuring those who are exempt know all the uptodate pieces of info.

Knowing about the "appeal" process might help those who are shitting themselves about this, that if the panic takes over and their mind goes blank. Once home and calmed down they can gather their evidence and start whatever process it is.

I thought that sharing these pieces of info was what the thread was about, to raise awareness about why people need these exemptions, and how they can do this? If not apologies op.