..to consider shopping my friend for her benefit fraud?!

[NadiaBaggyTwat]

My friend and I both work in local government. We are quite close and I have known her for years but she is incredibly bad with money and never makes any attempt to get herself back on track. Usually her mother bails her out and she just goes on spending. She is a good hearted person, but this is the one aspect of her that I find really hard to stand by and watch.

Close to Christmas, a group of us, including said friend and our DHs are going to France for the weekend. This was arranged months ago. It's costing £200 per couple and my DH and I are having a really really hard time financially at the moment (not from overspending but problems with DH's business) so we weren't going to go but friend owes me £150 from something I paid for on my card (because it was a surprise from her to her DP and which she's - obviously - never paid me back for ) and to my suprise she said "well you can come because remember, I owe you £150..."

So we agreed to go. Anyway the time came for this money to be paid and I gave her the £50 as agreed (for the rest of the £200 for her to pass on to another friend who was paying all the money in) and she said she needed at least £100.. she couldn't afford to pay our money (that she owes!) because she hadn't paid her mortgage for months. I gave it to her (the trip has to be paid for!) but really resented it as I only agreed to go because I knew we wouldn't have to find much of the money!

Meanwhile, at work she is constantly talking to everyone about her posh meals out with DP, her tanning/nails/waxing appointments. And next thing, she's whining to me about the terrible state of her finances. And she does really spend money like this.. she isn't just saying it to impress!

Worse still, despite is both working for a government agency she is actually defrauding them! For well over a year now, since she has been living with her new partner, she has been claiming as a single person (with children). This amounts to over £100 a week that she isn't entitled to!!

I have told her outright time and again she needs to stop spending money like water and on luxuries she can't afford and START declaring that she has a partner living with her and the children, but nothing changes and she says she just can't afford to declare that he lives there. (They even bought a HUGE posh new house on this basis!)

I am so upset about the whole money thing and having to listen to her day in and day out talking about what she's bought (she shops compulsively as well in v.expensive clothes shops) all the while owing me money I lent her in good faith to help her out (albeit for another extravagance.. a birthday present she couldn't afford to buy her DP)... that... (and this is really bad .. I want to report her.

But if I did she may even lose her job, bearing in mind where we work.. Not to mention her house. And I would probably feel terrible forever.

I am an extreme regular with a (very inappropriate; sorry!) name change to protect various identities.

What would others do? Please?

I suspect you have had a tipple or three already...

I don't think there's anything wrong in being passionate in your opinions.

sorry im just a bit pissed off no willing sex with my partner for a bit

I like the use of 'friend' in the thread title

"atm; "bad things happen when good people stand by & do nothing" umm.....so if im ever unfortunate to be robbed by a crazed knifeman, i can count on you to come & help me.."

Oh dear. No this is not what I meant at all, far from it. Look at Nazi Germany as an example; many Germans did not like Hitler but were too afraid. They stood by and did nothing. Too many fundamentally decent people at heart people turn a blind eye to benefit fraud.

"hmm and i stand by my "never grass a FRIEND" because although im not condoning benefit fraud, i would not want to be the one doing the "grassing" i actually think people who grass are lower than a rattlesnakes belly,
and with friens like you who needs enemies".

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Why on earth would you state that a "grass" is lower than a rattlesnake's belly?. I sincerely hope you never have to go on tv appealing for information asking for people to come forward. I actually think such people are very brave to stand up and be counted (far more so than the people who turn a blind eye); it comes back to my original comment that bad things happen when good people stand by and do nothing. Taking this attitude to its furthest extreme means never telling the police or any authority that you know who commited a crime; be it murder, armed robbery etc.

a benefit thief is stealing from all of us.
i would deffo shop her.

(am regular btw but in disguise!)

weird argument, law3, that 'it's all about money, not morals, and you bet no one would shop a friend for talking on their phone while sriving' etc.
Actually, stealing money which is designed to be a safety net for people who really need it, and therby putting up taxes IS a moral issue. This isn't just about your 'friend' - it's the fact that benefit fraud happens on a large scale and costs us millions.
Secondly - I have a friend who I share lifts with who I was horrified to find answered her mobile and chatted whilst driving. I told her what I thought about - I would have felt terrible knowing that someone habitually broke the law and pui others' lives at risk. She thought about it and bo longer uses her mobile whipe driving.
Thirdly - in the OPs case, I wouldn't say this is about shopping a 'friend' - if a friend is someone who fucks you over like this, I'd hate to see your enemies! Tbh, anyone who continually breaks the law because they put themselves and their wants before the law, is hardly going to consider other poeple's feelings are they?

sorry, driving - too early in the morning!!

God Furryfiona has made me cry with laughter this morning I bet she has a headache, bless

I wouldn't report but she needs help - I would not be subbing any more money.

ebenezer - You said 'If we all take the view that it's up to us to draw the line as to what kind of law breaking is acceptable and what isn't, where does that leave us as a society? The whole point of regulations and laws is that they apply to everyone!

My point we all turn a blind eye in one shape or form at some point ie friend does 30 in a 40 zone, doesnt wear a seatbelt, jumps a red light etc, talks on a mobile. So there is a grey area.

So unless you would hand yourself in for doing 40 in a 30 zone, dont take the moral high ground of laws apply to everyone etc, as we are all guilty!!!!

atm; i would come forward if id witnessed an armed robbery or murder, of course i bloody would. but i am loyal to my friends and in the context of the "op" i wouldnt "grass" . i know benefit fraud costs the country millions etc, so maybe its the benefit system that needs looking at?

so are you saying the law doesnt apply to everyone law3?? I'm confused!!

If she's your friend, don't report her but do warn her that she's treading on the thinnest of ice and could go to jail. I was in court the other day and sat through a series of people- mostly women with children- being fined/told off and sent down for various benefit frauds. It was very sad indeed- families being broken up and people being financially ruined by the necessity of paying back thousands of pounds. It seemed like most of the people simply hadn't thought things through and realised that their actions were both risky and illegal.

Having been on the receiving end of an armed robbery I am glad you would speak up!!.

Re your comment:-
"but i am loyal to my friends and in the context of the "op" i wouldnt "grass".

So you condone it then by not reporting it?. Not wanting to think about the fact that this money is going to someone who is patently and knowingly (and that is the key, its not an honest mistake) not entitled to receive it, thus stealing. This is not about loyalty to friends, I would argue that these people are not "friends" at all so loyalty to them does not come into it.

"I know benefit fraud costs the country millions etc, so maybe its the benefit system that needs looking at?"

I would certainly agree with you there, the whole benefits system needs a root and branch reform. Not advocating what Singapore does though - no benefits system at all is in place there.

Interesting point scummymummy. I think it's symptomatic of our society nowadays that people DON'T think through the consequences of their actions. Even if something is balatantly wrong/illegal, there's this sense of 'I'll be ok, nothing will happen to me'. As a teacher, I see it all the time - kids swearing at teachers/assaulting other pupis/disrupting learning - and unless they have parents who are willing to support the school, there's precious little that we can do. The number of parents who won't support schools these days is staggering. Maybe this seems a little off the point, but I don't think it is. The fundamental issue i believe is that we now have a society where many people think their desires are paramount, they feel they have a 'right' to the lifestyle they want and bugger anything else. And the only way to counteract this prevailing culture is to make a stand against it. Individually we may not feel like we're doing anything significant, but collectively,we are.

atm; look, im probably the most law abiding, "do the right thing" person you could ever meet. ive almost given up watching the news and reading the papers, just depresses me the awful things humans do to each other..... but.....i am a loyal friend.
however i think i said earlier that if this friend had killed her dh or something, i wouldnt help her bury him under the patio. so my loyalty does have boundaries.

do the right thing?
this whole omerta style 'nobody grasses anybody and we all keep quiet' crap is exactly what keeps people down and 'in their place' and living in fear in places. utterly utterly playing into the hands of nasty people who wouldnt do anything for you in return.

thats not a direct comment on the people in the Op, but more a general comment on the 'grasses are scum' mentality so many people seem to have bought into.

Ebenezer - We are ALL guilty of deciding where to draw the line, we are ALL guilty of deciding what kind of law breaking is acceptable and what isnt.

Unless you can honestly say that you would report yourself for breaking the speed limit (which is a law after all) then you are as guilty as EVERYONE else.

Nadiabaggy - 'What I am going to do, thanks to this thread, is send her a leaflet in the post about the benefit fraud hotline'

She is supposed to be your friend for gods sake. Cant you sit her down and tell her face to face, look you owe me £150 and it really pisses me off that you spend money on posh meals/tanning/nails/waxing instead of paying me back.

I really dont agree with what your doing, its fraud, if you get caught you could end up in prison, losing your kids, your job, your house, your husband, so stop being so bloody stupid, I care about what happens to you and your kids. Im not going to stand by and let you do this, so you either stop or i myself will report you.

thought of the day;

"people in glass houses should'nt throw stones"

so you are a benefit fraud too then talula?

'Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone'

you're still not answering my question law3!! Does the law apply to everybody or not??
Also - playing devil's advocate here - driving over 30 mph in a 30 mph zone isn't necessarily going to cause anyone any harm whatsoever. There might be certain locations/times of day when it's as safe as driving at 30. Whereas benefit fraud is ALWAYS taking money that is intended for people who need it, and ALWAYS costs the tax payer. Now, before you jump on me, I'm NOT advocating breaking the speed limit, I'm not saying I would do it myself (though you seem convinced that everyone in the entire land is a closet law breaker!). I'm simply pointing out that benefit fraud is directly causing harm/hardship to law abiding people in a way that driving over the limit doesn't!