..to consider shopping my friend for her benefit fraud?!

[NadiaBaggyTwat]

My friend and I both work in local government. We are quite close and I have known her for years but she is incredibly bad with money and never makes any attempt to get herself back on track. Usually her mother bails her out and she just goes on spending. She is a good hearted person, but this is the one aspect of her that I find really hard to stand by and watch.

Close to Christmas, a group of us, including said friend and our DHs are going to France for the weekend. This was arranged months ago. It's costing £200 per couple and my DH and I are having a really really hard time financially at the moment (not from overspending but problems with DH's business) so we weren't going to go but friend owes me £150 from something I paid for on my card (because it was a surprise from her to her DP and which she's - obviously - never paid me back for ) and to my suprise she said "well you can come because remember, I owe you £150..."

So we agreed to go. Anyway the time came for this money to be paid and I gave her the £50 as agreed (for the rest of the £200 for her to pass on to another friend who was paying all the money in) and she said she needed at least £100.. she couldn't afford to pay our money (that she owes!) because she hadn't paid her mortgage for months. I gave it to her (the trip has to be paid for!) but really resented it as I only agreed to go because I knew we wouldn't have to find much of the money!

Meanwhile, at work she is constantly talking to everyone about her posh meals out with DP, her tanning/nails/waxing appointments. And next thing, she's whining to me about the terrible state of her finances. And she does really spend money like this.. she isn't just saying it to impress!

Worse still, despite is both working for a government agency she is actually defrauding them! For well over a year now, since she has been living with her new partner, she has been claiming as a single person (with children). This amounts to over £100 a week that she isn't entitled to!!

I have told her outright time and again she needs to stop spending money like water and on luxuries she can't afford and START declaring that she has a partner living with her and the children, but nothing changes and she says she just can't afford to declare that he lives there. (They even bought a HUGE posh new house on this basis!)

I am so upset about the whole money thing and having to listen to her day in and day out talking about what she's bought (she shops compulsively as well in v.expensive clothes shops) all the while owing me money I lent her in good faith to help her out (albeit for another extravagance.. a birthday present she couldn't afford to buy her DP)... that... (and this is really bad .. I want to report her.

But if I did she may even lose her job, bearing in mind where we work.. Not to mention her house. And I would probably feel terrible forever.

I am an extreme regular with a (very inappropriate; sorry!) name change to protect various identities.

What would others do? Please?

ebenezer - get real, how is someone on welfare, going to pad an insurance claim, they have nothing to insure and cant afford to pay for the insurance in the first place, let alone pay a builder, fill out their tax return form inaccurately etc, etc

While I was on benefits for a while a number of years back, i had contents insurance on my belongings, so the opportunity was there to inflate claims if i'd chosen to. And are you seriously saying only 'lower classes' commit muggings and burglaries?! Think you're the one who needs to get real law!!!

ebenezer - like it or not certain crimes are associated with certain classes due to circumstances.

Someone on welfare cannot fill out a fraudently tax return.

Someone on welfare cannot afford to pay a builder.

Therefore these types of crimes are usually not committed by people on welfare. People on welfare are usually regarded as the lower class.

Certain crimes are MORE
LIKELY to be committed by certain sectors of society i agree - if you aren't employed, you're less likely to be filling out a tax return (tho there are still circumstances where you might).If you're working in an office, you're more likely to have opportunities to steal from it. If you're a man, you're more likely to commit rape than a woman (tho again, a few women have been convicted of rape).
It's the fact of talking about some crimes being more 'acceptable' than others that i find nauseating.

ebenezer - we are going full circle!!!

In society certain crimes are more acceptable than others committing murder is not acceptable, breaking the speed limit is acceptable and so on and so on.

Which brings us back to EVERYONE is guilty of deciding where to draw the line and which laws apply.

ok ok we're all guilty, all bad, etc etc you obviously know everyone better than we know ourselves!!

ebenezer - Sorry of course your not included in EVERYONE as you have never broken the speed limit etc, etc, etc.

I think the way she has treated you with regards to money is disrespectful, inconsiderate and makes her sound like a user. If she knows how hard up you are she must have very little regard for your feelings to make your situation worse. I don't think this is about being bad with money, that's a case of being totally selfish so despite all her 'good' points don't think she is much of a friend. Its all very well being kind hearted and doing anything for anyone if its just the things that suit you (ie not paying back money).

I would tell her how you feel and not let her get away with the old 'but you know how bad i am with money/how hard up i am' etc and tell her you feel she has treated you poorly and you can't afford to be her friend anymore. Don't think you should report her, mainly because you seem to being doing it as revenge which might backfire when her life unravels and you still don't have your money back.
Think the leaflet idea is a good one though.

of course law. I know it's everyone else you want to beat themselves up and feel the guilt!

ebenzer - If you have a point, then spit it out. Dont starting getting personal, doesnt make for a good debate.

Law3, breaking the speedlimit is acceptable I suppose as long as you dont kill someone in the process! Claiming benefits when you shouldn't, how reassuring that us good honest tax payers are working our butts off to fund these people ! Makes me bloody sick.

Anyway you 2 you have wondered of off the original problem, in your heated debate.

Tell the friend you will shop her in 2 months if she fails to sort her act out !!

39 and counting I totally agree it's wandered from the point! My point was (and has been all along) in response to the op, the law applies equally to everyone and that the op has a responsibility, whether you choose to desribe this as social, moral or whatever to report the crime being committed. And that once we start picking and choosing which laws we want to abide by, and which we don't, it's a surefire route to social chaos. I think that's quite a clear point myself and not at all personal myself. Unfortunately law then went off at a tangent and started telling me that I'm whiter than white and the only person in the world who's never broken a law - all a little weird and rather personal i thought.

39 - I was saying that SOCIETY find some crimes more acceptable than others. I dont think we treat all crime equally.

Ebernezer - i just found it hard to believe that you have NEVER EVER broken a speed limit, answered your mobile, paid a workmen in cash for a cheaper price (without a clue that he might not declare it), kept the change when given too much, took a pen from the office.

You say that you havent, so in my eyes you are whiter than white (thats not an insult)or perhaps im just a thieving, law breaking, fraud

I'm sorry but I find the concept that paying a bill in cash is somehow contributing to law breaking bizarre to say the least. You pointed out yourself earlier that, I quote,
'If I pay cash for services, it is not my responsibility to ensure the provider submits an accurate tax return.'Paying cash for a service rendered is NOT A CRIME. If someone else chooses to commit a crime following on from this, surely that's their responsibility?? Or am I wrong because I'm putting temptation in their way? Am I wrong to have a mobile in case someone is tempted to nick it? In the case of the OP, is the govt agency employing the woman who's committing fraud in the wrong because by giving her a job where she has responsibility, they're giving her an opportunity to break the law?! So..... as a teacher, if I decide to walk off with stock from my cupboard, is it the school's fault because they've given me responsibility as a budget holder?? Weird......

Ebenzer - If its ok for you to pay in cash for a reduced rate, knowing full well that person is going to avoid paying tax and commit fraud, and then say its not your responsibility. Then its not your responsibility to report a friend for committing fraud.

They are both committing fraud and costing the tax payer money. You can ignore the workman because you feel you are gaining something from it, you cant ignore a friend because you feel she is taking something from you. They are both costing the tax payer money, but one is easier to ignore than the other.

We are obviously not going to agree on this, so why dont we both just give it a rest

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree - I just don't like being misquoted! Nowhere have i said I would pay cash to someone if I knew that they were going to commit fraud. Just that if I choose to pay cash for a bill, it is NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY IF SOMEONE THEN CHOOSES TO DEFRAUD THE SYSTEM. As I pointed out, we ALL have opportunities to commit crimes - but we also have a CHOICE.

Do you think it would work to casually drop in the conversation that you heard someone in the local area had been caught as someone noticed a man living in her house rather than just visiting? In the hope that she declares it.

Or do you think she's past scaring / worrying?

funny, personally i see speeding as pretty abhorrent, but petty crime like minor shoplifting/ smoking cannabis/ bit of black market goods as perfectly reasonable.
to put it in perspective, i think its about 5p a year of average taxes goes to benefits. thats all benefits, inc pensions etc., unless people object to "working their butts off" for all those lazy old people hanging about drinking sherry and eating cakes on hard earned taxpayers money. blah blah. if you are working your butt off for a low wage i suggest you steal some stuff from work to redress the balance. SOMEONE is making a mint of you,and it ain't the unemployed.
there was an interesting report recently out about how the black market is a completely essential part of the UK economy. i wish my memory was better so i could quote it!

Maebee, do you work for a living or sit on your butt all day then ?

Maebee, I see you are toolazy to do anything done about getting your novels publsihed.... Shame perhaps if you did do something you could drink some more of that red wine you enjoy!!

Not read anything but the OP.

Shop her.

to OP

1. I would cancel trip ask for money back from organiser stating 'no funds'. It will cost more when you get there and if you haven't got money now for milk, then you'll be stuffed on a trip!

2. Never, never lend money again

3. Dob this stupid woman in. Remeber she owes you £150, that you will never see again - money that could have gone on your children ffs!

i wouldn't pity her - i would hate her flaming gutts!!!

Lets just hope that Maebee's child does not grow up to be one of those shoplifting, cannabis smoking, dodgy perfume and dvd dealers then !!!

That could then lead to drug dealing, gun carrying and who knows what else, and dont say it doesnt coz it does. Greed just breeds greed. Good job the majority of us do work our butts off (and nothing was ever mentioned about low paid!)to support the lazy individuals who expect to be kept ! If we all had that attitude I suppose the money would not be there to encourage the bludgers !

39andcounting: jesus f christ! did you really never shoplift ANYTHING as a kid?!
even the Famous 5 scrumped apples!! (before they became guntoting muggers that is.)