..to consider shopping my friend for her benefit fraud?!

[NadiaBaggyTwat]

My friend and I both work in local government. We are quite close and I have known her for years but she is incredibly bad with money and never makes any attempt to get herself back on track. Usually her mother bails her out and she just goes on spending. She is a good hearted person, but this is the one aspect of her that I find really hard to stand by and watch.

Close to Christmas, a group of us, including said friend and our DHs are going to France for the weekend. This was arranged months ago. It's costing £200 per couple and my DH and I are having a really really hard time financially at the moment (not from overspending but problems with DH's business) so we weren't going to go but friend owes me £150 from something I paid for on my card (because it was a surprise from her to her DP and which she's - obviously - never paid me back for ) and to my suprise she said "well you can come because remember, I owe you £150..."

So we agreed to go. Anyway the time came for this money to be paid and I gave her the £50 as agreed (for the rest of the £200 for her to pass on to another friend who was paying all the money in) and she said she needed at least £100.. she couldn't afford to pay our money (that she owes!) because she hadn't paid her mortgage for months. I gave it to her (the trip has to be paid for!) but really resented it as I only agreed to go because I knew we wouldn't have to find much of the money!

Meanwhile, at work she is constantly talking to everyone about her posh meals out with DP, her tanning/nails/waxing appointments. And next thing, she's whining to me about the terrible state of her finances. And she does really spend money like this.. she isn't just saying it to impress!

Worse still, despite is both working for a government agency she is actually defrauding them! For well over a year now, since she has been living with her new partner, she has been claiming as a single person (with children). This amounts to over £100 a week that she isn't entitled to!!

I have told her outright time and again she needs to stop spending money like water and on luxuries she can't afford and START declaring that she has a partner living with her and the children, but nothing changes and she says she just can't afford to declare that he lives there. (They even bought a HUGE posh new house on this basis!)

I am so upset about the whole money thing and having to listen to her day in and day out talking about what she's bought (she shops compulsively as well in v.expensive clothes shops) all the while owing me money I lent her in good faith to help her out (albeit for another extravagance.. a birthday present she couldn't afford to buy her DP)... that... (and this is really bad .. I want to report her.

But if I did she may even lose her job, bearing in mind where we work.. Not to mention her house. And I would probably feel terrible forever.

I am an extreme regular with a (very inappropriate; sorry!) name change to protect various identities.

What would others do? Please?

Rubbish, doesn't matter what the road conditions are, there is always the chance that a small child could run out into the road or something else unexpected could happen. If you hit someone at 30, there's a 25 per cent chance you'll kill them. Hit them at 40 and the figures reverse - only 25 per cent chance they will live.

It's just that speeding is somehow seen as less wrong than benefit fraud, maybe because 'everyone' does it, or maybe because benefit fraud is primary a working class crime and therefore judged more harshly.

Just remembered, a presumably drunken man staggered off the pavement into the path of our car at 3am once. Thank God we managed to miss him. But shows that doing over 30 in a 30 limit always carries a risk even if you think no-one is about.

You know the worst thing about benefit fraud?

It's when you see how people who are genuinely claiming benefits have to juggle the contents of the Kwiksave trolley to balance the diet and wash the clothes and clean the house and replace the washing machine and get a carpet down in the baby's bedroom and buy school shoes that actually fit their children...

And if someone is working for their money, and they want to blow is on false nails and holidays brilliant! They've earned it, they deserve whatever they want!

But would you watch a mate steal out of a charity box and blow that money on false nails and holidays? Because that is essentially what benefit fraud is. It's stealing from the poor.

I don't approve of benefit fraud, either, but it's not really stealing from the poor. If benefit fraud stopped tomorrow, you don't think the government would raise benefits, do you? Because I've spent a lot of time with politicians and I'm bloody sure they wouldn't.

I think it's wrong because it's stealing, fundamentally. But I don't think it's more wrong than other forms of stealing that are primary practised by the middle classes or the rich.

primarily

Edam I said I'M NOT CONDONING BREAKING THE LAW. There's always a chance that someone could run in front of your car on any stretch of road with any speed limit. Personally the reason I am always watchful of speed limits is exactly because of what you say - a kid could run out in front of you, it wouldn't be your fault as a driver, but if you were going over the limit then you'd get the blame. That idea scares the shit out of me because the consequences - loss of job, home, possible jail - would be awful. And that's what the law is for - to make people think about the consequences of their actions, and act accordingly. And that is EXACTLY my point about benefit fraud - people should accept the consequences if they choose to break the law

NG I think that's true to an extent.
Not saying this in relation to the OP but I have never really 'got' the whole 'grassing is wrong' thing.

It's what stops kids at school reporting bullying for a start. Bullies thrive on it.

I can understand that if someone you are close to is doing something wrong, it's better to talk to them and say it is making you question the friendship before launching into any indirect 'attack' (ie shopping them) because you would not be able to remain friends if you did so.

But I don't see the problem with grassing if you have been clear about your views - indeed it could be seen as a duty.

I hope the OP finds her own way of handling this well

Edam, yes, sure, but you can bet anything that while there is benefit fraud, they will use it as an excuse not to raise benefits

ebenezer - of course the law applies to everyone, but most of us are not 100% law abiding citizen.

But if your going to use the line 'If we all take the view that it's up to us to draw the line as to what kind of law breaking is acceptable and what isn't, make sure you hand yourself in next time you break the speed limit, answer your mobile with engine turned on, jump a red light etc, etc

Is 'driving over 30 mph in a 30 mph zone isn't necessarily going to cause anyone any harm whatsoever. There might be certain locations/times of day when it's as safe as driving at 30', YOU deciding where to draw the line.

Either the law is the law or it isnt, make up your mind???????

law3; that one aswell..!

nappiesgalore; no ive never committed benefit fraud and i dont like people that defraud the system, any more than you do!

but i thought the question was about reporting a FRIEND or maybe ive lost the thread .....?????

Law. She doesn't take a damn bit of notice of what I say. I have TOLD her many times she needs to sort it out. I have not said I am going to shop her, but then she wouldn't believe I would do that even if I told her so. She knows me better than I know myself in tha respect because no, I can see now that I couldn't do that to her.

The leaflet seems a sensible way to scare her into doing the right thing herself can't you see that?? I don't know what do do about her unless I just carry on ignoring what she's doing. She is cheating the benefits system out of a LOT of money per year. This is why I started this thread.

For those who are big on giving me the face at the fact that I describe her as my friend.. this is the real world, nothing is black and white. The fact is, she IS my friend and I DO give a damn about happens to her (or I'd have shopped her long ago don't you think?) but really she is taking the piss - out of me and out of the state. Even as she fritters away money without paying me what she owes me she would call me a friend. She is a bundle of contradictions.

oh god law, did you not read my post! I said I'm playing devils' advocate here!! I said there MIGHT be situations where driving a few miles over the speed limit MIGHT not pose any more risk than than sticking to it. And that in such a scenario there wouldn't be a victim of the crime, unlike benefit fraud. I DIDN'T say I would do this, nor that it's acceptable. I've said all the way along that the law applies to everyone and that everyone should accept the consequences of breaking the law. Whether 98%, 95% or whatever of people break the law (and I'm not sure where you get your figures from on this) is NOT THE POINT! If I shoplift, it's no defence to say 'Oh well, lots of other people do it!'

Nad - she doesnt sound like much of a friend. If you cant ignore what she does, i would have to say what your doing is effecting our friendship, if you dont stop, then our friendship does.

Friendship is a two way street of respect, honesty, trust and love.

This person lives beond her means which is her business, and also is claiming benefits which she isnt entitled to, again her business, the only thing that has n e thing to do with you is she owes you money, ask her for the money she owes you, tell her what your situation is, ie. you cant even buy your kids milk!! make her work for your friendship, a real friend would try to sort out an agreement to pay the money back, if she doesn't sort out some money and sharpish, fuck her off out of your life, she sounds like a selfish cow anyway, whom is more interested in how she is percived by everyone. she dosn't care much about her child because if she did she wouldn't be risking the chance of possibally going to prison and heaving them in the hands of social services for benefit fraud, btw dont go away with the weaster, because sooner or later your feelings will come out against her, ger our money back and keep your distance from her as for grassing her up dont bother your time is better spent worrying about your business not anybody else's.

If someone is claiming benefits they aren't entitled to, is that REALLY only the bushiness of that person?? I can't quite believe that..

Business sorry... I'm not drunk honest!

Nad - I think the leaflet thing might be a good idea. Even though it makes me livid I'm not sure if I'd be able to shop her, bearing in mind the possible huge consequences on her family. Silly cow needs to sort herself out . Best of luck.

ebenezer - if anyone on this thread can honestly say they have never padded an insurance claim, taken something from the office, paid cash to avoid taxation or kept money when given too much change, costing 14 billion a year in FORGERY and FRAUD then they have every right to point the finger.

Im not condoning benefit fraud, but EVERYONE is guilty of deciding where to draw the line and which laws apply, unless your perfect of course!!!

So please dont be all holier than thou, we do all choose which laws to ignore!!!

shining happy people, i myself dont agree with the breaking the law but my point was get rid of this so called friend, i myself try to distance myself with people who break the law but that sometimes isnt how life is as we all know, we all have a choice as to our friends and this person clearly isn't giving the respect that a friend should so tough love is my way, i know this may not be the opinion of many on this thread but thats what i would do.

Sorry but I don't think there's anything 'holier than though' about having respect for the law.

shiny, I agree with your post. Of course someone who is defrauding the system is doing something that affects others, and therefore it isn't just 'their' business.

ebenzer - i assume you have never done any of those things, so i take my hat off to you then, you are the only truly a 100% perfect law abiding citizen i have ever heard of.

No law, I can't say i have knowingly done any of those things. I may inadvertently have pocketed a small bit of change if i was given too much and didn't check it, and I know I used to pay the occasional bill by cash (it ain't a crime you know!)- but I assumed the person I paid would declare it n- not my fault if they chose to break the law and avoid tax. And I wouldn't be so hasty to assume that everyone else is doing what you describe either. I don't think it's a case of being whiter than white - just being basically decent and law abiding!!

"if anyone on this thread can honestly say they have never padded an insurance claim, taken something from the office, paid cash to avoid taxation or kept money when given too much change, costing 14 billion a year in FORGERY and FRAUD then they have every right to point the finger".

Well perhaps I do because I've never done any of those things you've stated. No I am not a saint, good god no, but am fundamentally honest like most people on here I daresay.

With reference to your last comment on excess change I've always given excess notes back because I know what its like to be in a job when your cash till does not balance. A horrid feeling.