To ask people to show a little more understanding to those not wearing masks

[Fuckinellitsme]

Apologies for another mask thread.

First of all, I'm not an 'anti masker', I absolutely see the need and the importance of wearing them. I'm unable to wear one myself - I have trigeminal neuralgia and when I've tried to wear one, the resulting attack has left me bedbound for days. I want to wear one, but I can't. I also have rheumatoid arthritis so I'm incredibly grateful to all the people who do wear masks, therefore protecting others and especially those in higher risk groups (though not vulnerable enough to be shielding) like me.

However. I've seen some truly awful comments on here in the last few days directed at those who don't wear masks. We should be treated like lepers if we enter a shop without one, for example, or should be banned from them outright. And we ought to stay at home if we are exempt, not use public transport or go shopping or go to work. We have 'made up' health issues and disabilities and are 'woe is me' 'snowflakes'. I've also encountered bus passengers passing comment and tutting about my lack of mask.

Those of us who can't wear a mask (and are acting within the law/guidelines, being exempt) still need to go about our business. It would be lovely if we could do so without fear of comment or judgement. I understand that there will be those who don't wear a mask because they just don't want to - however, please, if you see someone without a mask (particularly if they're wearing a sunflower/exempt lanyard) try to be understanding and give them the benefit of the doubt.

The nastiness and ableist comments on here (and elsewhere) in the past few days have been genuinely upsetting for those of us unable to wear masks. Please don't assume we're all stupid/selfish/conspiracy theorists/don't care about your health, or that it's a choice. For many, choice doesn't come into it.

A bit of empathy goes a long way, especially in these weird times.

[Fuckinellitsme]

@Lweji

People are lumping those who are legitimately exempt in with the genuinely selfish and reckless mask deniers.

I don't think they are. Although, you certainly are when you feel attacked.

Out and about, though, yes, people will probably think you're the selfish kind.

They are. In my OP I mentioned some of the things I've seen on MN in recent days which illustrate the attitudes of many people regarding those unable to wear masks. This is despite the fact that it's absolutely recognised by the government that there are groups who are exempt.

I may be wishing for the moon on a stick here, but all I'm asking is that if people see someone not wearing a mask, don't assume the worst and judge accordingly.

[3ismylot]

I think there needs to be some guidance about what conditions are exempt from mask-wearing, with exemption certificates being supplied to those who simply cannot wear one like the OP.
No exemption certificate means you wear a mask or you are refused entry to shops/transport etc but there should not be challenges made by the general public, by all means, highlight to staff etc for them to ask for the certificate but I think this pandemic has brought out a lot of self important tattle tales to be honest!

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

[quote Fuckinellitsme]**@Hearhoovesthinkzebras* the advice from @blurpityblurp* gave above seems very sensible.

I think all of us are going to have to learn to be extra mindful of others for quite a long time - particularly if we cannot wear a face covering. I accept that and am completely happy to do so. I also think that we all need to be empathetic and understanding of others and accept that things are not black and white.[/quote]
Can you explain how that advice is sensible? If I'm on a bus with someone not wearing a mask what do you think I should do? Get off every ten minutes? That's their advice for on a train.

How about if I'm working near someone not wearing a mask?

How about teachers in my position?

What sensible advice do you have for these situations? What precautions are you taking, whilst on a bus, to not infect others? Only, from what you are saying, you are telling me to take all of the restrictions to accommodate you.

[corythatwas]

I am willing to show empathy with those who absolutely, absolutely cannot wear a face shield of any kind. Like those who cannot wear a seatbelt or cannot vaccinate their children.

But my timeline is CLUTTERED with people who are just treating face masks as an infringement of their civil rights.

To me, there is also a big difference between people who cannot get their children vaccinated for medical reasons and those putting them at risk for whacky the-Lord-will-provide-measles-isn't-really-a-proper-illness reasons. It is precisely because of the former lot that I want the latter lot to get their heads out of their arses.

I do experience mild panic due to childhood croup, but in my case I have been able to weigh that against the kind of damage I could do without it and come to the conclusion that I can cope. I accept some people can't do that. But the more of us that can, the better, safer for everybody.

My son works handling food. In his case, obviously he couldn't be allowed to put other people at risk so if he wasn't able to wear a mask he would have to quit, just as he wouldn't be able to work on a building site if he couldn't wear a safety helmet.

[NotShiny]

"COVID isn’t the Black Death. People act like if you so much as glance at an infected person you’ll catch it. And now that’s turned into “if you so much as glance at an unmasked person you’ll catch it” even though that person is statistically unlikely to even have it."

Well you know, numbers of deaths are quite high across the world?! I tend to not believe the stats too much to be honest. We cant trust stats for other Countries, so they are probably double what they say. And recently that farm in the news had 200 tested and about 150 odd were positive, but no symptoms. I think it's more "out there" than we think. And it's not just the deaths, it's being proven that people who have had it now have ongoing problems for life. Not something I'd want to catch really. Plus if the Government didnt think there was a risk, they wouldnt be making mask wearing mandatory. I do hate it when people play it down, like it's never been an issue and is only a common cold. Yeah, right, that's why we had lockdown?!

[backinthebox]

Several issues jumping out at me from this thread.

Firstly, I have not seen any awful comments aimed at people who cannot wear masks for medical reasons. I have seen some fairly robust comments aimed at people who have said they are not going to wear masks for other reasons. I have also seen unsubstantiated claims that mask-wearing can exacerbate other health conditions or cause low oxygen saturation. These are the people some of the replies here are aimed at. Most conditions where people say they should be exempt it would generally be possible to come up with a solution. However, for a very small number of conditions it really is impossible to wear a mask. I would say that trigeminal neuralgia is one of them.

Secondly, it is clear many people don’t understand what trigeminal neuralgia is. When I studied pain pathways years ago it was described as a facial nerve pain, and nerve pain is the only type of pain that cannot be treated with conventional painkillers. Trigeminal neuralgia was given as the main example of this. I was working with pain consultants in hospitals at the time and they said it was about the only condition they did not have a definitive treatment plan for. I don’t think it is unreasonable for you not to wear a mask in public, but I do think it is unreasonable for you, whilst protecting and defending your own health conditions, not to give consideration to those who are fearful of their own health too. You know you have trigeminal neuralgia, the other people on the bus don’t. However, you don’t know if the person you have sat down next to without your mask is immunocompromised for some reason and rightfully angry that you are not wearing a mask. In the same way that you are asking for understanding from everyone else, I would beg understanding from you too.

[blurpityblurp]

HearHooves, I honestly don’t know what you want people to say. You’ve posted a lot about your situation over the past few months and most people have been very sympathetic, because clearly it’s shit that someone so severely unwell and vulnerable that you can’t even sit in your own garden has to go to work in a supermarket. It’s terrible and it’s a massive failing of the system.

But that’s a much bigger problem, and the real problem is that someone seriously ill shouldn’t be forced to work in a supermarket. It’s the government who are to blame here.

The average person wouldn’t assume that seriously ill people on the “extremely vulnerable” shielding list are going to be working dangerous physical jobs. It’s reasonable to expect that everyone is taking responsibility to keep themselves safe. If you can’t then that’s awful but you need to talk to a solicitor or the CAB and see about applying for benefits. It’s not realistic to expect everyone else’s needs to be sacrificed for one extreme case.

[Whichoneofyoudidthat]

@blurpityblurp

In the Asian countries that have previous experience of SARS and Avian flu I doubt there are exemptions as they don’t have a choice.

In most of those countries, mask-wearing is a habit which is widely followed due to social conditioning, and is not a legal requirement at all.

Do you live in a SE Asian country? Have you ever? (Btw ‘Asia’ is a big place so I’m assuming you mean SE Asia. And even then there are plenty of countries where mask wearing isn’t generally widespread. Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia....I could go on).

I assume you’re talking about HK, Japan, China? They’re not all some homogeneous group. They can think for themselves. HK has been the scene of massive, MASSIVE pro democracy protests over the last few years They brought a city of 7 million people to a standstill. For weeks. Twice. They are not a bunch of compliant, timid sheeple. They have seen what a pandemic can do. Businesses and schools closed during SARS. For weeks. They’ve been there done that. They don’t want to do it again. You see people with masks all year round , sure. But in ordinary times it’s the odd person here or there. More often on a day of high pollution.

They wear them because they are effective. Not 100%, but effective.

During this pandemic? HKD5000 fine if you don’t wear them on public transport. There are hundreds of thousands of expats here. We’re all wearing them, too. I’ve not heard any of the reasons I’ve heard on MN not to wear them.

[ravenmum]

Yes, there will be people who say stupid things to you. People say stupid things to strangers the whole time. Is this thread to raise awareness of hidden disabilities? I would think that wearing a badge of some kind might be more effective.

[Iwonder08]

OP, if you can't wear a mask then don't wear a mask. Why do you care what people think? You absolutely shouldn't stay home if you don't want to, it is your decision only.

[blurpityblurp]

What precautions are you taking, whilst on a bus, to not infect others? Only, from what you are saying, you are telling me to take all of the restrictions to accommodate you.

Now come on, don’t attack me because you know that simply isn’t true. I wrote a whole list of things people who can’t wear masks should do to ensure they reduce risk to others.

If you are on a bus, sit 2m away from the person not wearing a mask, wear your own mask, don’t touch your face, and wash your hands as soon as you can.

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

Millions of us stayed in for months - shielded. We did t for our own sakes and for the NHS.

Now we are "allowed" out of our homes again we expect others to show the same consideration as we did. If you genuinely can't wear a mask then do what we did. Stay inside for the safety of others.

[Fuckinellitsme]

@MaskingForIt this is exactly the attitude I'm taking about. Some people cannot wear a face covering, and are exempt from doing so. We take every other precaution that we can and we feel bad enough about it without being told that basically, we're murderers.

@Lozz22 so I'm not supposed to go to hospital appointments/work/out of the house at all until a vaccine is found? How is that even remotely possible?

[Fuckinellitsme]

@Notonthestairs

We need a proper public health campaign to sell the benefits of the mask AND spelling out the exemptions. The 10 day period is to help people prepare - they won't if they dont see the benefit.
We need to neutralise it as a political statement, persuade the naysayers and roll out some kind of card that can be shown swiftly without giving medical details.
But then that would require planning and an understanding of the issues.

What have to accept is that there will always be some that take the piss and its not our job to patrol them.

This.

[Lweji]

I'm not trying for an argument, but your OP is not evidence for your claims that people on MN attack those who genuinely can't wear masks along with those who just don't want to. Even when the shorthand is "people who don't wear masks are selfish".
It's not reasonable to expect pp to write "except those who genuinely can't" every single time.
Pps can't even be arsed to write posters, fgs. (QED)

[Fuckinellitsme]

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras no, I'm saying we should all take precautions to accommodate each other, to the best of our abilities.

[IrmaFayLear]

The thing is just because you are exempt or think you should be exempt from mask wearing doesn’t mean you are magically free from the virus or magically unable to catch it.

Frankly the number of people who medically cannot wear a mask must be minute. Personally I can wear a mask in spite of shielding due to having a condition cited on here as being a reason not to wear a mask. So piffle to that.

And anxiety? No. Sorry, that does absolutely not trump other people’s right to safely go about their business.

I am not a lockdown zealot, but think that actually “herd” mask wearing could enable us to start going about our business with more confidence.

[countrygirl99]

So many of the virtue signallers claiming to care so much about others clearly don't give a damn about the OP.
I have masks, I will wear them. But I am also going g to have to do virtually all of the shopping because DH relies on lip reading. Some of the smunts on here really do need to think outside the box a bit more.

[QueenCT]

@blurpityblurp that's the thing though - the shielding aren't all seriously unwell. So it's a nightmare trying to get people to understand you're vulnerable
I work FT, not entitled to any benefits/PIP etc etc and live as a perfectly normal person. But I'm having to shield

[Meredithgrey1]

There's a conflict of rights then isn't there? Those who have conditions that make them very vulnerable to Covid have the right to be protected whilst using public transport or at work. Wonder how that one is balanced out?

Of course they do, but a small percentage of people not wearing masks (and I'm talking about people who genuinely cannot, like OP) will not massively increase the risk, provided they do follow the other recommendations such as remaining 2m apart, washing hands, staying home if you have any symptoms etc.
Masks are one part of picture, and everyone who wears one helps the situation, but OP going into a shop without a mask on but still remaining 2m from other people does not make that shop a significantly more dangerous place to be.

OP yanbu at all but I think your case will not be helped by all the people who could wear a mask but refuse to. I have a lot of sympathy for those who genuinely cannot wear a mask, as they will probably all be assumed to be selfish twats by some people for the foreseeable future.

[Redwinestillfine]

Most people will be able to wear masks or alternatives. For those who genuinely can't then something from your GP to stop you getting fined should do. If people have a pop have a response to hand. I genuinely would be surprised if this was a frequent reaction though. Surely people have better things to do than being the mask police? The attitude 'I can't so it shouldn't be compulsory' isn't helpful though. The majority can and should. Let's work together and get this thing over with in the shortest amount of time with the least damage.

[countrygirl99]

Lweji have you seriously not seen all the posts that say "stay at home then*. Really? Or are you just ignoring them because they don't fit your agenda?

[Wishforsnow]

Op face masks aside have you been reviewing for the op to move the nerve at all? My mum had severe trigeminal neuralgia and had the operation and it was instantly life changing. She used to collapse to the floor if anything touched her face and now can, apparently it can last up to 5 years. She's not had pain for a couple of years now. Apologies if you have already gone down this route.

[Hearhoovesthinkzebras]

@blurpityblurp

HearHooves, I honestly don’t know what you want people to say. You’ve posted a lot about your situation over the past few months and most people have been very sympathetic, because clearly it’s shit that someone so severely unwell and vulnerable that you can’t even sit in your own garden has to go to work in a supermarket. It’s terrible and it’s a massive failing of the system.

But that’s a much bigger problem, and the real problem is that someone seriously ill shouldn’t be forced to work in a supermarket. It’s the government who are to blame here.

The average person wouldn’t assume that seriously ill people on the “extremely vulnerable” shielding list are going to be working dangerous physical jobs. It’s reasonable to expect that everyone is taking responsibility to keep themselves safe. If you can’t then that’s awful but you need to talk to a solicitor or the CAB and see about applying for benefits. It’s not realistic to expect everyone else’s needs to be sacrificed for one extreme case.

Hang on, so the op is fine to ask everyone else to be understanding and accommodating to her illness but in my case tough luck, go on benefits and don't expect anyone to accommodate you?

How exactly does that work?

A) most people on here have been the precise opposite of understanding towards me, or anyone shielding - see my " you are all going to die soon anyway" comments

B) people should educate themselves about who is likely to have been shielding and realise that we are working and are in every sort of job

C) I wouldn't be able to claim benefits when I am able to work

[PhilSwagielka]

People who can't wear masks for health reasons are exempted from the maskcourse. It's not people like you who annoy me, it's people who whine about 'muh freedom' or claim COVID isn't real. If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.