Drag, drag, drag....

[Yarboosucks]

I have never been a particularly sensitive or active feminist, but all this drag rubbish on TV is getting to me. How at a time when rightly you could not broadcast in black face or similar is it OK to mock or at best caricature women so ridiculously?

Yep, find it massively offensive. Nothing will be done about it though so long as it is dominated by white males.

Despise drag, and the vile men prancing around doing it.

This topic comes up a lot and when I read the comments supporting drag Im always reminded of the women who campaigned against the sufragettes.

Womanface is offensive.

[quote Midsommar]@AlsDiner "I've never seen them wave their hands around their crotch area in a degrading manner

Two drag queens appeared on the big fat quiz of the year (I think it's called) and did the crotch waving with 'ewww gross' type facial expression on that show. I think, but I'm not sure as I don't watch it, they were from Drag Race."

Apologies - I stand corrected. I agree that is pretty grim and unfunny. In my defence I've never seen them act like that on Drag Race! [/quote]
To be fair I've never watched Drag Race - I just saw that fishy thing on the big fat quiz and found it offensive. Perhaps I should watch it!

If you want to make a point, then you should maybe start with the correct information then.

Drag isn't just white men. Drag isn't even just about dressing as a woman, or every drag queen oppressing or parodying women.

Its performance art.

Some queens obviously go down the route of being offensive, many entertainers do, to get a reaction and a name for themselves. There are also many who don't.

There are queens who dress as everything under the sun, from famous paintings to animals, to mythical creatures, to historical figures and everything in between.

Some sing, some dance, some tell jokes, some mime, some are PG rated, some are 18+.

You cannot categorise a whole group of people because you dont like the actions of some.

Pretty sure that's stereotyping and offensive in itself.

I don’t like it and avoid watching though DD2 is a fan. I don’t find it as offensive as black face.

Jesus, this again.

@Yarboosucks

I have never been a particularly sensitive or active feminist, but all this drag rubbish on TV is getting to me. How at a time when rightly you could not broadcast in black face or similar is it OK to mock or at best caricature women so ridiculously?

So, no more "pantomime dames"? No more "ugly sisters"? No more Peter Pan (traditionally played by an actress)? What is this world coming to??????

I think we should have a reverse version of drag where women dress up as men and act all butch, we could call them 'push acts'.

Pantomime dames aren't drag acts. Different genre.

They are called drag kings.

As far as I can tell, drag isn't one homogenous thing, any more than singing or acting.

If you are part of a group which has been subjected to huge pressure to conform to the gender stereotypes related to men then I can see the attraction in casting all that off and going totally in the other direction. I can appreciate the freedom in that.

However, there does sometimes seem to be a level of spite(generally) and (more particularly) misogyny in some drag performances.

So I suppose it depends how it's done really.

I have thought about this a lot and I've come to the conclusion that I don't mind it. Drag acts are SO incredibly far away from how actual women behave and look that there's hardly even a connection for me. They're a breed of their own. I do however believe it's part of the adult humour world and not suitable for kids to emulate

I enjoy RuPaul's Drag Race, and I don't see it as the same as blackface because drag is an art form developed by men who were discriminated against, particularly gay men, including ethnic minority men (Asian, African American). They are not all white powerful straight men at all. I enjoy it as a performance, and find it fun watch men playing with femininity (as a gender construction), amazing dresses, make-up and the fashion is eye popping at times, not at all what women wear. If we genuinely don't mind men wearing dresses or make-up why is this so offensive?

One interesting thing is though, that RuPaul himself has been targeted by some trans people, as he was very clear that drag is all about men dressing as women and then becoming men again, in other words, a performance. There's a lot of talk of tucking (so hiding bits)- they aren't, early on, trying to be women. Trans has changed that for some contestants and that's made the whole scene more complex, as a lot of drag artistes are not aiming to 'pass' but more to put on a highly stylized show.

I watch it with my teen girls and it has generated many interesting discussions about clothes and gender and socialized roles, but mainly it's enjoyable and fun.

It's not "womanface"

It's not even about looking like a woman, half the time, or even human. Its roots were formed in the oppression of the gay community. It's political, and one of the few art forms that are still political today, in a way that music doesn't seem to be anymore.

I think if you're looking at it and thinking they're taking the piss out of you, then what the fuck do you look like? They're not trying to blend in - that's the whole point.

I was hoping this would be a thread celebrating the re-opening of Santa Pod.

So many different styles and genres, with only one thing in common.
Theyre wearing womanface.

If theyre so talented, why the need to pretend to be women?

Men wearing dresses and make up? Fine.
The exaggerated gestures and character? Something I personally find very irritating, but ultimately fine.
Misogynistic jokes? Not fine.

I've always liked films like Priscilla and The Birdcage, though have never wanted to watch RuPaul. Can't say I've ever been offended by pantomime dames and stuff like that but can see why others might be.

I find it offensive. The characters, behaviours and names are grotesque. There is a kind of glorification of men dressing in an OTT way that would get a woman who put as much make up on a completely different kind of response. It is a part of gay culture but I get the feeling of laughing at women rather than with them.

@SerenityNowwwww

Pantomime dames aren't drag acts. Different genre.

Men dressed as women with extreme caricturisation? Designed / scripted to make people laugh? I have no problem at all with anyone - if they want to dress up as blue-arsed flies, then ok, where has the tolerance gone?

It's not my cup of tea but I'm not offended by iy.

I find it very offensive, it’s a parody of negative aspects of being a woman in most cases.
I do think it’s similar to black face

One of my best friends is a drag performer.
He is one of the most misogynistic men I have ever known, though maybe he is just being open about it where as more appearence consious or hetro guys just hide it more?

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult , I do have the correct information so please don't patronise me.

The appropriation of another group's physical appearance or characteristics for whatever purposes is always belittling and offensive. If Jeremy Clarkson dressed up in blackface as Nelson Mandela and recited a poem, most people would be pretty uncomfortable about that. For many women, someone like Matt Lucas dressing up as a woman as entertainment is similarly offensive.

Tolerance is the wrong word, I should have written "acceptance"