Masks - GET A GRIP.

[Changednamesorry]

Ok.

So. Lots of whinging about masks at the moment as BoJo finally hauls his arse into gear and says that you have to wear them in the shops and on public transport.

In Catalunya where I live masks are obligatory. Every time you are in public. Including in the street. Inside and out. The exceptions are

Medical conditions (you need a paper justifying this)
When playing sport
Children under the age of 6
If eating or drinking

If you don't comply - 100 euro fine. No arguments.

Most people here were already wearing masks anyway (because we saw the horror at the beginning of the pandemic here and we know what a real lockdown is like - not allowed out at all, children locked inside for nearly 3 months, etc)

People arent whining and complaining nor imagining how they can invent aome excuse to mean that the rules don't apply to them and the overwhelming majority of people are wearing them all the time.

Tourists not so much but they getting fined. Good.

So England. PLEASE. Stop with the selfishness. Literally dozens of countries have mandatory mask wearing and citizens comply because they care about each other and don't spend their time acting entitled and "I'm all right Jack"

There are articles in the European press about this. Literally "English people are selfish - is it any wonder they are so resistant to wear masks". It's embarrassing. As a nation, as a society, it's time to grow up and just put the mask on like everyone else.

English people. You aren't special. You are starting to look like the kid who gets thw whole class detention because they just keep on breaking the rules.

Wear the mask. Please. It's for the safety of everyone.

And if you ABSOLUTELY MUST come to Spain on holiday, even more so.

i'm not sure you can take online bravado as fact. So lots of people on FB may say they won't wear one but will do very differently on 24 July.

I don't think the criticism is directed towards people who have genuine reasons why they can't wear a mask; it's meant to be directed against those people who don't want to wear a mask because they really don't care about protecting other people. They have an 'I'm all right, Jack' attitude and boast about it on social media.

I agree that the thread title was goady, though, and the OP has been guilty of sweeping generalisations.

@OrangeBlossomsinthesun I work for the NHS so I wear them at work all day every day. I know only too well how stifling and uncomfortable they can be, especially in hot weather and no air conditioning!

Yes there are people who will refuse simply because they're a little bit uncomfortable, which is obviously different to the examples I have given. However, my point was that the way in which the OP has presented her post has quite rightly pissed a lot of people off. Who likes to be told to "get a grip", after all? In relation to virtually anything in I might be going through in my life, I can guarantee that this phrase would make me want to punch the person in the face. Its dismissive, patronising, and rude. I feel as tho you Covid has given some people what they feel is the "right" to have this unpleasant air of judgement towards others who don't comply with what they feel "should" be happening.

We have all been affected in different ways, it's a life changer for everyone and there'll be some parts that some folk breeze through, like mask wearing, whilst others will be floored by it, for their own reasons. And that's OK. Because this whole thing is fucking shit, and we are doing the best with what we have. It's that simple.

I've just realised what it is that's annoyed me. It's the "preachiness" of it. (Not a word, but it suits what I'm trying to say).

All I've seen since Covid began, all over social media, are the preachy people typing "WHAT DON'T YOU GET, PEOPLE, STAY THE FUCK AT HOME!" (In capitals, too.) Now it's "GET A GRIP" and "WEAR YOUR FUCKING MASK, ITS NOT HARD".

I can't abide that attitude, quite frankly.

If people want to genuinely seek to understand others' (and in this case, a whole other country's) experiences of Covid and mask wearing choices in a respectful manner - that's one thing. Im all for that. Let's learn about how we all feel about it, and why.

If someone wants to preach at me from their imagined pedestal of perfect conduct since Covid began - for the 20,000th time since March of this year - they can quite frankly take it elsewhere.

We all know which category this post falls into.

@sleepingpup but you’re not calling out other posters for calling people vile for disagreeing with the OP. So some hypocrisy there.

nope i'm only talking about people calling the tone of the OP vile.

But then I think they should report🤷‍♀️

I'm sure posters have been saying all sorts, both ways. But I'm not thread police.

@ OrangeBlossomsinthesun

I don’t think anyone can use the availability issue excuse as essentially there are countless online instructional videos for all kinds of work arounds (even UK government DIY face coverings instructions way back if I can recall) including simply repurposing numerous items of clothing even without any sowing required. No one needs to buy one if they don’t have a home made one to shop with! Some schools have taught children how to make face coverings as many grown ups mums and dad will know and can learn from their children if absolutely necessary.

Perhaps not surprising other social media source are trending with some UK men being potentially problematic, antagonistic an anti PPEism although Covid fatalities statistics globally indicate the male demographic a higher risk.

There will be anti Covidism as possibly some don’t believe there is anything to worry about despite the whole world on lockdown. Many in the UK are possibly not complaining about government Covid furlough financial support but evidently when requested to help out a bit by covering their mouths and nose in public seems somewhat bizarrely unresponsive or blatantly rebellious anti government in this regard. These people seemly not appreciating their own medical well being to minimise all possible vectors for Covid contamination and disease control. Yes some are waiting until the last minute as perhaps they either prefer herd immunity or think this will last forever. If the later perhaps if collectively the UK population proactively recognised the potential dangers we will be further ahead in getting us all out of this mess rather than being in prolonged suffering as some reuse to self determine their personal risk mitigation measures.

This is one reason apart from Brexshit why so many Brits (potential productive brain drain tax payers and wealth creators) are preplanning exit strategies as UK could potentially have worst of both worlds with record Covid destruction and no beneficial Brexit achievements! You may have seen the new ways of working in USA especially Silicon Valley California and recent UK targeted Barbados one year entry live and work visas! 2020 is potentially turning out to be the year of the digital capitalist nomad expedited by Covid and Brexit! Radar is duly on notice as to safety first horizons and preferably with sensible friendly locals and nicer climate!

I wear a mask when out of the house and likely to get close to other people (ie not for walks in the countryside).

There's an extent to which you have a point OP, but there's no need be quite so rude.

Totally agree with you @LouJ85

And to top it off, all of it coming from someone who doesn't even live in the UK!

If you've spent any time on MN at all, you know GET A GRIP is waving of a red flag and goady.

I am law abiding and will happily wear the mask but I don't need to be told to do so by some jumped up upstart who has left the country and vows never to live here again. The idea that I might care for their opinion is ludicrous.

The sheer arrogance of preaching from thousands of miles away is breath-taking.

I have a family in other countries who have not been handling the pandemic well and I would not dream of going on forums based in those countries to preach to them to GET A GRIP.

Can you imagine any other topic that criticises people for their own personal choices, other that Covid, with this as the header?

But other people's personal choices, in this respect, Covid, have SO MUCH effect on others.

You get the same sort of intensity on a post about Anti Vaxxing, and yes I could see G.AG. applied to a post about that, as people see it as a choice that affects everyone.

If people want to genuinely seek to understand others' (and in this case, a whole other country's) experiences of Covid and mask wearing choices in a respectful manner - that's one thing. Im all for that. Let's learn about how we all feel about it, and why.

Excellent advice.

*And to top it off, all of it coming from someone who doesn't even live in the UK!
*
Doesn't really bother me 🤷‍♀️ I am very interested in the perspective from abroad. As we are so out of step here both in deaths as well as mask wearing.

But yes I agree Get A Grip on MN is going to get people's backs up. But as I said that is par for the course on here. Possibly more would agree if they weren't "put out" . Maybe🤷‍♀️

Doubt it really. Mask wearing seems to be "one of those" issues.

@sleepingpup - Yes Covid affects everyone. But this is not only in respect of mask wearing or not. There are a whole host of hidden, psychological effects, too - social isolation, job losses, anxieties due to PPE, anxieties due to children being off school, feeling a "failure" trying to home school children whilst working full time... I could go on. If we take the approach of being rude and openly critical of those who are struggling with any or all of the above, how is that even remotely helpful? If we try empathy and understanding for all feelings; whether that be "I hate the masks", or "why won't people wear masks" - surely we stand a chance of getting somewhere??

And other life decisions DO affect others, too. Smoking is one. Alcoholism and drug use another. Obesity may - in some people's view - also fall into this category from the perspective of increased health risks and strain on NHS resources. Does that give me the right to start a thread telling smokers, alcoholics, drug users, and overweight people to GET A GRIP? No. It doesn't. Because a) it's disrespectful, and b) the only way change will happen anyway is by trying to understand the root causes for people's decisions and treating them with empathy and compassion. I'd have had more time for the OP if there had been any evidence of any of this in her post.

Plenty of posters are equally disrespectful about those topics as well, though. It's what Mumsnet AIBU has become like. Usually when posters complain about it, they're told, 'This is AIBU, get used to it.'

Yes Covid affects everyone. But this is not only in respect of mask wearing or not. There are a whole host of hidden, psychological effects, too - social isolation, job losses, anxieties due to PPE, anxieties due to children being off school, feeling a "failure" trying to home school children whilst working full time... I could go on. If we take the approach of being rude and openly critical of those who are struggling with any or all of the above, how is that even remotely helpful? If we try empathy and understanding for all feelings; whether that be "I hate the masks", or "why won't people wear masks" - surely we stand a chance of getting somewhere??

As an approach I genuinely agree with you. Especially off MN.
And I feel great sympathy for the "can'ts" as opposed to the "won'ts".

But really in a AIBU I just can't get that worked up about it.

I'm not sure if that is because I think masks should be worn. And being honest, it probably is.

'Stop making stuff up': NHS doctor demonstrates that face masks do not reduce oxygen levels

"Masks help protect you and protect others. If you're told to wear them, do so. Stop being selfish"

www.standard.co.uk/news/health/nhs-doctor-masks-oxygen-video-joshua-wolrich-a4499876.html

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

'Stop making stuff up': NHS doctor demonstrates that face masks do not reduce oxygen levels

"Masks help protect you and protect others. If you're told to wear them, do so. Stop being selfish"

www.standard.co.uk/news/health/nhs-doctor-masks-oxygen-video-joshua-wolrich-a4499876.html

I'm glad he added on the end that he "fully understands the impact that mental health and anxiety may have on mask wearing" and that his Tweets are not aimed at this group. 👍🏻

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

I'm glad he added on the end that he "fully understands the impact that mental health and anxiety may have on mask wearing" and that his Tweets are not aimed at this group.

This is an important distinction because, whilst the masks may not biologically reduce oxygen saturation, this knowledge is largely irrelevant to someone with severe anxiety and panic, whose difficulties are psychological in origin and likely to persist regardless of being told such facts. 👍🏻

I dont want to wear a mask and won't...guess what that means I know i won't be going to shops, tube etc.

Do I care? No because everything can be delivered to your house.

The end.

“ I don't know about in the UK but here in Spain people with a valid reason not to wear them (medical issues, special needs etc) are exempt. I think the OP is talking about all those people who just don't want to wear them. Not because they lip read or have PTSD to do with abuse, but just because they don't like them.
I don't like them. I fucking hate them actually. They make me feel sweaty and claustrophobic and my sunglasses steam up. It's 41ºC here today, wearing a bit of cloth over my face is really gross.
But that doesn't make me special or mean I should be exempt, most other people feel like that. I'm lucky in that I work from home so i only have to wear it when I'm out. ”

No no - the OP objects to your attitude too! It’s the complaining that must be silenced, and you are complaining! It doesn’t matter that you will wear one anyway - the OP doesn’t seem to care that some people can’t wear them, or that some people will object but comply. It’s the complaining that she thinks doesn’t happen at all in Spain

@CM0TD

“ I don't know about in the UK but here in Spain people with a valid reason not to wear them (medical issues, special needs etc) are exempt. I think the OP is talking about all those people who just don't want to wear them. Not because they lip read or have PTSD to do with abuse, but just because they don't like them. I don't like them. I fucking hate them actually. They make me feel sweaty and claustrophobic and my sunglasses steam up. It's 41ºC here today, wearing a bit of cloth over my face is really gross. But that doesn't make me special or mean I should be exempt, most other people feel like that. I'm lucky in that I work from home so i only have to wear it when I'm out. ”

No no - the OP objects to your attitude too! It’s the complaining that must be silenced, and you are complaining! It doesn’t matter that you will wear one anyway - the OP doesn’t seem to care that some people can’t wear them, or that some people will object but comply. It’s the complaining that she thinks doesn’t happen at all in Spain

I think it was the "whinging" that must be silenced, if I recall correctly... God forbid anyone ever has an issue with something that has changed their lives beyond recognition and dares to express it! Just get on with it. Obviously. 👍🏻

No no - the OP objects to your attitude too! It’s the complaining that must be silenced, and you are complaining! It doesn’t matter that you will wear one anyway - the OP doesn’t seem to care that some people can’t wear them, or that some people will object but comply. It’s the complaining that she thinks doesn’t happen at all in Spain

Exactly, it's the wrongthink.

Sort your thinking out, damn you.

@cyclingmad

I used to get everything delivered and stayed in self shielded hibernation but nearly every logistical delivery driver never wore any PPE, no face mask, face shield covering nor gloves. Many of them say yes it's in the lorry/van etc and all where statistically in a high risk Covid fatalities demographic. In fact more often than not I would request for the deliveries to be placed a short distance outside my home and then offered them basic shop brought surgical face masks as they were obviously delivering possibly more than their assigned cargo door to door all day long and hence possibility a vector for inadvertent community transmission spread.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia ok good for you, but not going to shops or using public transport doesn't mean I'll be sitting indoors for rest of my life. So many more things I do lile cycling, visiting natural beauty spots, reading a book in the park. As for deliveries all the deliveries I have had so far all have worn gloves or left it outside the door and knocked whilst they keep distance.

@CM0TD

“ I don't know about in the UK but here in Spain people with a valid reason not to wear them (medical issues, special needs etc) are exempt. I think the OP is talking about all those people who just don't want to wear them. Not because they lip read or have PTSD to do with abuse, but just because they don't like them. I don't like them. I fucking hate them actually. They make me feel sweaty and claustrophobic and my sunglasses steam up. It's 41ºC here today, wearing a bit of cloth over my face is really gross. But that doesn't make me special or mean I should be exempt, most other people feel like that. I'm lucky in that I work from home so i only have to wear it when I'm out. ”

No no - the OP objects to your attitude too! It’s the complaining that must be silenced, and you are complaining! It doesn’t matter that you will wear one anyway - the OP doesn’t seem to care that some people can’t wear them, or that some people will object but comply. It’s the complaining that she thinks doesn’t happen at all in Spain

Except I don't actually complain. If you asked me I would say what I've said here, but I dn't complain because there is no point. I'm not exempt and i have no choice unless I want a 100 euro fine. Nobody else I know here in Spain complains either. I know people don't like it because it's obvious, nobody likes wearing a face mask in 40º heat, it doesn't need saying, but we all accept that's the deal. I expect there are Spaniards who do complain and flout the rules, but here in Andalucía compliance is pretty much universal from what I've seen and complaining pretty much nil in my experience

Expressing a negative opinion about it on here is still complaining as far as those who want everyone to stop talking about not looking forward to wearing masks are concerned - unless you want to turn this into a debate about what the word “complaining” means. I think it’s perfectly legitimate for you to say that it’s horrible to wear the mask, and I personally don’t count it as “moaning” etc, but when posters on here express similar feelings to you they are on the receiving end of “grow up and wear the fucking mask” and so on.

I’ve heard no one complaining in RL either and I live in England. Only on here. I have heard my french friends complaining about wearing a mask several times to me on the phone. And I have no problem with any of it.