To say if they mandate mask wearing they need to ensure some way for the exempt from masks to prove it?

[BuffaloCauliflower]

I am not anti-masks at all, I can see they are often very useful tools in infection control when used correctly (though it doesn’t seem they are by many people) but as someone ‘officially exempt’ from wearing them - in my case due to asthma - I’m increasingly panicked at the thought they’ll be made mandatory in shops and other places.

I have been able to avoid public transport thankfully due to furlough/wfh but I’ve wanted to shop, help the economy etc. and I fear I’ll have to stay away completely if masks are mandatory because I don’t think my exemption would be believed, or that I wouldn’t have people having a go at me for being out without a mask. I’ve tried many times to wear them and they make my symptoms (already far worse than usual due to pregnancy) ramp up even more. It’s very distressing, especially as it causes coughing, and I’m then removing the mask (touching the mask and my face, definitely not mask best practice) repeatedly to try and regulate my breathing. I’m following all other guidance sensibly, lots of hand washing, keeping my distance from others when out, but all things considered I think I’m more risk to others in a mask than without one should I be carrying CV.

I am very worried that despite being exempt I have no way to prove it to shops or other businesses. I carry my inhalers but that relies on others understanding, the government have previously said there won’t be anything official to prove exemption, though public transport companies have come up with different options (I’ve printed the TfL card just in case, but technically anyone could do this as it’s not verified) I’ve already been told once that someone ‘didn’t agree’ with exemptions to mask wearing and I should basically suck it up. People who want to be mean won’t check for exemption before having a go I’m sure of it.

But at the very least shouldn’t they ensure there’s some official way I could prove my exemption, a letter or card I could apply for from my doctor perhaps, that’s recognisable to others so I’m not at risk of not being believed or being yelled at? There are many people who will be in the some position.

.

@GreytExpectations

This is it in a nutshell. I don't want to have to explain myself to someone who probably wouldn't understand anyway when I'm just popping to the shop or whatever. What's more, I shouldn't need to

That's your choice but don't moan when that means you don't want to go into any shops. Other countries are managing just fine, don't understand why we can't either.

Other countries also have these same exemptions.

It has been mandatory on TFL since 15 June, since then 18,500 people have been stopped on public transport for not wearing a mask.

Like to take a guess how many were fined?

59. That's it, 59. A month in London when we are still not fully using these services, over 18,000 have satisfied the police enough. Not many people travel around with their medical details with them. Although wonder how many of them. would have had an appointment letter to the appointment about their exemption. If it was me, that would be the only time I would carry anything around like that.

Oh and btw store workers don't have to wear masks.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53397617

18500 not wearing a mask. Wow, that's quite a lot. Presume if only 59 fined, the rest were all exempt. That's a lot of exemptions. Sort of puts it in perspective.

Oh and btw store workers don't have to wear masks.

I’m ok with that if they are. Much prefer they have Perspex screens up.

@NotShiny
It really does. I had to read it a few times to make sure the numbers are right, and even now I'm waiting for someone to say I've miss read them.

We aren't fully back, people are still using it when needed, we've had hotels and restaurants etc open. And that's it 59.

And the fucked up thing when it becomes not viably worth it and gets dropped, guess what poor sods will get the blame? If only they did as demanded.

@MarshaBradyo

Oh and btw store workers don't have to wear masks.

I’m ok with that if they are. Much prefer they have Perspex screens up.

looool this also includes the shelf stackers, cleaning crew etc. Don't remember seeing them walking around inside a perspex box. 🤣

@Fuckinellitsme

I'm not comfortable going to the mandatory places though. Would rather just avoid potential conflict

This is it in a nutshell. I don't want to have to explain myself to someone who probably wouldn't understand anyway when I'm just popping to the shop or whatever. What's more, I shouldn't need to.

You do t have to explain yourself to a member of the public and can just tell them to mind their own business or just don't respond to them.

Can I love that stupid face and lool

YES I am talking about people serving. Idiot.

You do t

That should say "don't have to".

Sunflower lanyards are not just for people with ASD, they cover all hidden disabilities. I bought one with a face mask exemption card. I also carry a letter from my GP stating that I cannot wear a mask for medical reasons.

Ironically I’ve only been challenged once and that was by a Tube worker whose own mask didn’t cover his nose

That's your choice but don't moan when that means you don't want to go into any shops. Other countries are managing just fine, don't understand why we can't either.

Haven't been in one since March. I think I'll manage. Should probably buy shares in Amazon though. I'm also accepting that I'm not currently deserving of medical treatment. Would hate for anyone to feel "traumatised" by my non mask wearing even with a letter from my consultant explaining why.

Changing tack a bit, DSS(20) who has ASD and other additional needs says he would be ok wearing a balaclava if it's allowed. (There's no way he would wear a mask. Or an exemption badge or lanyard. (It's complicated.))

Balaclavas have till now been banned in all our local shops, but he finds them comforting to wear, for various reasons.

I said I'd try and find out if they qualify as 'face coverings'. Does anyone know?

looool this also includes the shelf stackers, cleaning crew etc. Don't remember seeing them walking around inside a perspex box.

I bet all the chains will force their staff to wear masks.

[quote Buttercup77]@LangClegsInSpace just to add... or would this fall under the proportionality argument you stated? Is it the case that making a reasonable adjustment here does not result in a significant enough increase in risk to others as the other customers can essentially protect their own faces thereby mitigating any marginal increase in transmission that may occur from someone else not wearing a mask?[/quote]
Yes, it's the proportionality argument but not quite in the way you mean here.

There is some evidence that cloth face coverings can potentially help prevent transmission, in situations where people cannot distance, by catching the droplets from the wearer, who may be asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic. There is not really much evidence (yet) that they make any difference to the wearer's chances of catching it - hence the idea that by wearing masks we all protect each other.

But face coverings on their own will not prevent transmission, they will just reduce the chances of spreading it in certain specific situations. Nobody knows definitively by how much yet, we need more research, and effectiveness will vary widely depending on the type of mask people use. There is no evidence that they make any difference at all in situations where people can physically distance so you can mitigate the small additional risk of being around someone who is not wearing a mask by staying 2 metres away from them.

We need all the things - hand hygiene, respiratory hygiene, distancing, face coverings, testing, isolation, contact tracing, quarantine ... and lockdown measures for when these fail, although hopefully these will only be very local and well targeted as we go forward.

There might be people in the shop with you who pick their noses and don't wash their hands. There might be people there who have shagged 5 different people at 5 different parties in the past week. There might be people there who have symptoms and have not sought a test, or who have been contacted by test and trace and asked to isolate but have gone out shopping anyway.

You can't see any of those things though, all you can see is the person who is not wearing a mask.

We need all the things and we need enough people to comply with each of them. None of the measures are much use on their own and none will be complied with 100% for various reasons, but if we use all the tools we have and enough people comply we can still drive infections right down.

So in this context yes, it is massively disproportionate to not have medical exemptions to mask wearing, just because it's the thing you can see. Especially as it would completely exclude some disabled people from accessing goods, services and transport.

God this thread is depressing. So much anger against people with disabilities. I have asthma and claustrophobia and masks are difficult for me to wear. And it's not panic that makes it so - my airways are constricted due to the asthma itself.

My friend is making me some material ones for me to try as I can't wear the paper ones. They set me off with an attack and I have to take it off and get my inhaler out.

And while some Drs may be asthmatic I defy anyone to find an asthmatic firefighter (frontline). They'd be a danger to the rest of their crew and their stringent health requirements would screen asthmatics out. Plus wearing of BA equipment isn't the same as masks - im actually be fine with those (have worn one as part of a visit).

Why so they can show their proof to some random person who basically should think about getting a life is they want to be that nosy.

As I said, random people shouldn't ask. They should have proof for police, transport workers or shop workers though.

This thread has gone from people unable to wear a mask or not wanting to because of a disability to outright refusing to show proof of legal exemption when reasonably queried. Not talking about some stranger on the street barking in your face but why can’t a shop owner reasonably ask to see an exemption before you enter there store without a mask? Why does there have to be a “confrontation” or Mexican standoff about anything?! Shop owner politely asks if you could please put on a mask before entering the store. You politely say you cannot because of an exemption and show that exemption. 5 second job. No fuss. Both of you get on with your day. Even less fuss ensues if you are wearing a visible exemption lanyard because it’s a signifier to others that you have that exemption so if enough people know this is a exemption signifier, you probably won’t even get approached in the first place.

I just saw on the TV that a chief police chief say this will be hard to enforce so encouraged shop owners to put a sign on the door stating masks to be worn upon entering. And if you have a medical exemption, that’s fine. The radio this morning was full of worried shop owners stating they were worried their staff would get abuse for refusing customers or they would lose their license/get fined themselves/lose other customers/increase transmission if they did not insist upon mask wearing.

How is it discriminatory to ask for proof of an exemption from a serious public health precaution that affects others? If you park in a disabled space then you need to visibly display a badge in your car or if it’s not visible, provide the badge if queried by the proprietor? Otherwise surely anyone could rock up in that space. I don’t understand, why does a difficulty have to ensue? Why be antagonistic for no reason when everyone is trying to do their best? People not wearing masks increases the risk for others in that shop so why can’t a staff member ask to see an exemption card in order to protect their customers and staff? Why take it out on some poor shelf stacker or person behind the till who’s just trying to do their job and follow government guidelines instead of politely just explain you are exempt? Unless I’m missing something?!!

"As I said, random people shouldn't ask. They should have proof for police, transport workers or shop workers though."

What proof are you looking for though? Weve already established there is no disability card and no time to bring in an official system. So what proof?

What proof are you looking for though? Weve already established there is no disability card and no time to bring in an official system. So what proof?

They will have to bring in an official system because I suspect masks will be required for some time.

@mrpumblechook

looool this also includes the shelf stackers, cleaning crew etc. Don't remember seeing them walking around inside a perspex box.

I bet all the chains will force their staff to wear masks.

And how do you suggest all the chains do this?

@mrpumblechook

What proof are you looking for though? Weve already established there is no disability card and no time to bring in an official system. So what proof?

They will have to bring in an official system because I suspect masks will be required for some time.

THere is a name for a card that was talked about years ago. Would have come in handy now for example. Oh the National ID card. Anyone up for that to be introduced?

For those wondering what I'm on about have a search, about 10 maybe 20 years ago.

@Fairybird there is no legally accepted proof of exemption. There is no card or pass or letter we can produce on demand. Ergo, we will have to explain ourselves and our medical history to those who demand it - be they bus inspectors, shop staff or whoever. And we will have to put up with the judgement from members of the public when we board buses or go into shops without masks. This thread and so many like it prove that many feel that if you're not wearing a mask, you're not trying hard enough.

And many also believe that there's some form of legal proof that you're exempt.

Visors are an excellent alternative to masks, highly recommend

@JustAnotherPoster00 Thank You for proving my point that the hard left are just as dangerous to disabled people as the hard right.

In your case with a garnish of misogyny.

I would suggest anyone exempt or panics etc wearing a mask approaches the security guard or whoever and politely explains their situation and ask to come in.

I doubt this will be heavily policed as long as most people do it. And actually if lots of people ignore it they wont be able to police it effectively. I would imagine fines will mostly be given to people who are belligerent with it. Oh and black people. No doubt as with lockdown and everything else they will be more heavily policed.

I see loads of buses go past with a big % of passengers not wearing them and not seen anyone challenged yet.