To say if they mandate mask wearing they need to ensure some way for the exempt from masks to prove it?

[BuffaloCauliflower]

I am not anti-masks at all, I can see they are often very useful tools in infection control when used correctly (though it doesn’t seem they are by many people) but as someone ‘officially exempt’ from wearing them - in my case due to asthma - I’m increasingly panicked at the thought they’ll be made mandatory in shops and other places.

I have been able to avoid public transport thankfully due to furlough/wfh but I’ve wanted to shop, help the economy etc. and I fear I’ll have to stay away completely if masks are mandatory because I don’t think my exemption would be believed, or that I wouldn’t have people having a go at me for being out without a mask. I’ve tried many times to wear them and they make my symptoms (already far worse than usual due to pregnancy) ramp up even more. It’s very distressing, especially as it causes coughing, and I’m then removing the mask (touching the mask and my face, definitely not mask best practice) repeatedly to try and regulate my breathing. I’m following all other guidance sensibly, lots of hand washing, keeping my distance from others when out, but all things considered I think I’m more risk to others in a mask than without one should I be carrying CV.

I am very worried that despite being exempt I have no way to prove it to shops or other businesses. I carry my inhalers but that relies on others understanding, the government have previously said there won’t be anything official to prove exemption, though public transport companies have come up with different options (I’ve printed the TfL card just in case, but technically anyone could do this as it’s not verified) I’ve already been told once that someone ‘didn’t agree’ with exemptions to mask wearing and I should basically suck it up. People who want to be mean won’t check for exemption before having a go I’m sure of it.

But at the very least shouldn’t they ensure there’s some official way I could prove my exemption, a letter or card I could apply for from my doctor perhaps, that’s recognisable to others so I’m not at risk of not being believed or being yelled at? There are many people who will be in the some position.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

My “shock” hard hitting rant was a touch insensitive and not fully MumsNet judgemental approved BUT it was designed to wake people up to SAVE LIVES. Call it a nasty reserve psychology shock treatment!

I have good heart I want you to live and I want us to all get back on our feet and the economy back to some sort of new normal so I can contribute and help my little bit in paying for those less able to do so!

I mean you no harm I want you to understand that you need to be as protected and use all common sense means to stay safe! Yes if you cannot physically or psychologically cover your mouth and nose then you need to stay safe and perhaps wait until it is safer to be out and about as you may inadvertently catch this disease and that is not good for you nor anyone else! There is a global pandemic 50k already dead and no medical cure so what can we all do? We can’t stay at home as otherwise England will be even more economically devastated!

Whatever. I'll carry on thinking you were just being a knob.

Look people I get it and to all those that can’t wear some sort of face protection I am truly sorry for you not able to do so and fully respect this

That might be slightly more believable if you hadn't posted your "rant".

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia you say that those of us who can't wear a mask should stay home until it's safe to go out without one, lest we get infected.

Masks don't protect the wearer.

As I've said, I'd love to be able to wear a mask to protect others. But I can't. I also know that wearing one isn't for my own protection.

So why do others want to freely erode the rights of others by wanting to resort to one rule for all?

There are exemptions to it, are you suggesting no one wears them because some people might (wrongly) be arseholes to others? I'd personally rather fewer people dying.

@MileyWiley

I you can't wear a mask because of breathing difficulties then try a visor. I don't understand what is so complicated about this other than people simply not wanting to wear one. 100% support persons with sensory issues/ autism/ leaning disability/ other neurological conditions not being able to wear a mask but breathing difficulties not so much - surely more necessary for them to wear protection.

Medical professionals across the globe all agree asthmatics and those with breathing difficulties are exempt. Globally there are exemptions because of this and other health reasons. Including the removal to eat and drink.

Spain, Germany, USA, China, Scotland, Africa, Japan and more all have these exemptions.

And visors on their own aren't worth it because off all those gaps.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils

I understand that therapy/counselling is a long term thing, and people may not be ready to wear face masks in 10 days. But what if masks are required to be worn long term? I don’t think this is a far fetched scenario - I think it is quite possible that the mandates will stay in place for months or even years.

I've had 2 years therapy for trauma related issues on the NHS already. As far as I'm aware I'm very lucky in getting that much. It helped with various elements but but breathing into something and Adam's apples, no joy whatsoever. I have tried to desensitise myself and have the scars to prove it. All I'd say is that attempting by yourself is not a good idea.

Psychiatrist wants me to have more therapy due to the breakdown I had during lockdown, the fear of masks becoming mandatory was a factor as was attempting to desensitise myself without support. Very nearly ended up being sectioned and was strongly advised to voluntarily take an inpatient bed. Apparently it will be at least a year to wait on the NHS. I am covered by dh's work policy for six sessions and we could afford to pay for more but I'd need to have childcare which I can't currently get.

Short term I'll avoid anywhere masks are mandatory. Haven't been in a shop since mid march. Won't be going to the doctor's etc. Am secretly grateful that the hospital have just discharged ds without having seen him since August. If they become long term/permanent, I imagine I'll have a hopefully better attempt at what led me to be almost sectioned earlier this year.

I’m very sorry you feel so low. I hope you do get support in real life.

FWIW I’m not doubting you that you have been through a huge trauma and are suffering. I believe you.

Take care

@mrpumblechook

At the moment the mask stuff isn't in the Act. (I don't think so anyway) hence it's guidance. However, even if it's in the Act, exemptions have to be made because of those protected rights

The rights of one protected group don't override those of another though. For example you can't discriminate against someone who is gay on the basis of your religion . Anyway, I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be exemptions. I'm suggesting that people should carry proof that they are exempt in order to stop piss takers not wearing masks just because they don't feel like it.

Why so they can show their proof to some random person who basically should think about getting a life is they want to be that nosy.

Other than that, it is in the police hands to decide.
If a fine has been given the person will either

Pay the fine/not pay the fine.
Send evidence and have the fine squashed.

By the mantra of show us or else stay indoors, it excludes those people from "normal life" and about "quality" of life. The only way for exempt people to show their evidence is if this applied to everyone, and iirc there was outrage about the ID card.

@Standardy

So why do others want to freely erode the rights of others by wanting to resort to one rule for all?

There are exemptions to it, are you suggesting no one wears them because some people might (wrongly) be arseholes to others? I'd personally rather fewer people dying.

No I didn't please explain where I suggested this in any of that post. I asked why people feel the need to erode the rights of others and by posters demand some within society identify their personal info to basically anyone who asks, it erodes that groups rights.

An national ID card for all wouldn't erode any group of people rights. But like I said in another post, last time that was suggested it wasn't popular.

PhilCornwall1

Let’s just say the feeling may be mutual. Just think of me as the knob who thinks being a touch rude is better than being dead! Saving lives whatever it takes! I am the most hated Mums Net badge of honour trying to save lives idiot! Reminder to self to readjust super sensitivity back to eggs shells Mums Net level.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia in what way are ableist comments and benefits bashing 'saving lives'?

Everyone who has mild asthma and uses a salbutamol inhaler twice a year will be crying about how they can't wear a mask. It's laughable. Health care staff with asthma have been wearing them for 12 hour shifts for months now.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

PhilCornwall1

Let’s just say the feeling may be mutual. Just think of me as the knob who thinks being a touch rude is better than being dead! Saving lives whatever it takes! I am the most hated Mums Net badge of honour trying to save lives idiot! Reminder to self to readjust super sensitivity back to eggs shells Mums Net level.

Please ensure the feeling is mutual.

Saving lives? What virtue signalling bollocks.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

PhilCornwall1

Let’s just say the feeling may be mutual. Just think of me as the knob who thinks being a touch rude is better than being dead! Saving lives whatever it takes! I am the most hated Mums Net badge of honour trying to save lives idiot! Reminder to self to readjust super sensitivity back to eggs shells Mums Net level.

Please ensure the feeling is mutual.

Saving lives? What virtue signalling bollocks.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils there are many exemptions thankfully. Even in mandatory places there are exemptions.

Eventually people will become used to seeing those without mask in society as standard. And the ones that won't let it go etc, they might get to see the "wrong" side of those legal rights when they are charged with something,

Anyone seriously thinking about walking up to people and demanding to know their reasons, might want to read into the various criminal laws. Those within the force don't forget might have a hidden disability, just they aren't in uniform. TFL has lots of posters up. reminding people to not ask and exemptions.

Although I don't condone it, I would love to be there to see the look at the outraged as they get taken away in handcuffs. Of course won't be funny for the poor sod who has to listen to the outrage.

@GreytExpectations

I haven't seen a single exempt person saying they will refuse to 'comply with providing evidence'.

Plenty of posters on here have said they do not want to have to advertise they have a disability or explain themselves to anyone. To me that is not complying.

And there we have it. They do not want to ADVERTISE their disability to the public. They have not refused to carry proof of exemption to show to people who have a right to see it. And that does not include you, however unfair you think that might be. As for 'explain themselves to anyone', that's a complete non-starter. Various people will have the right to ask people to show proof that they are exempt. It is against the law, - yes, that law that you're so keen on - to ask why they are exempt. If they don't have the right to know, you certainly don't. You'll just have to wonder and judge for yourself - and I'm sure you will.

Ffs nobody is going to walk up to you and demand anything. People need to get a grip and stop jumping to ridiculous assumptions. Don't worry, nobody will care and nobody will comply to mask wearing. Once again we will be one of the only countries not able to handle the pandemic because our people are too sensitive to follow guidance

They have not refused to carry proof of exemption to show to people who have a right to see it

Yes they have. RTFT

there are many exemptions thankfully. Even in mandatory places there are exemptions.

I know. I'm not comfortable going to the mandatory places though. Would rather just avoid potential conflict.

@GreytExpectations there is no 'proof of exemption'. Anyone can pick up a rainbow lanyard/card. GPs, consultants etc do not provide proof.

Nobody is able to carry legitimate proof of exemption.

I'm not comfortable going to the mandatory places though. Would rather just avoid potential conflict

This is it in a nutshell. I don't want to have to explain myself to someone who probably wouldn't understand anyway when I'm just popping to the shop or whatever. What's more, I shouldn't need to.

Anyone can pick up a rainbow lanyard/card

Don't you mean sunflower lanyard? Don't know what you are suggesting by a rainbow one. My point is most people wouldn't get hassled if they had a card or lanyard.

Medical professionals across the globe all agree asthmatics and those with breathing difficulties are exempt. Globally there are exemptions because of this and other health reasons.

This. Also, asthma varies a lot. Some people have asthma so mild they don't even get prescribed a preventer inhaler. Others have asthma attacks weekly.

My asthma is difficult to control. Not mild, but not severe. I have to use a combination inhaler instead of the standard brown preventer, as well as an add on treatment. I can only tolerate a face covering for a short period.

Also, people with asthma can have other conditions. I also have ehlers danlos syndrome and associated POTs. This means I faint easily, and feel faint even more easily.

So a face covering both affects my breathing and also contributes to me feeling faint. It is in no-one's interest for me to pass out in a shop or on a train due to a face covering. It is in no-one's interest for me to have a potentially life threatening asthma attack due to one either.

So yes, some asthmatics can manage a face covering. Which is great, no-one is saying that they shouldn't wear one if they can do so safely. Asthma UK says the same and suggests everyone try a covering to see if they can use one. However, the fact remains that some asthmatics can't wear a mask and are therefore exempt. Again, Asthma UK says the same.

Like the vast majority of people with a medical reason why I can't wear a covering, I would much rather be able to wear one so I could go to the shop (if I wanted or needed to) without worrying I'll be harassed for not wearing one, or refused access to services.

I have no problem telling shop staff/police/transport workers that I have a medical exemption. Nor do I have an issue showing the Asthma UK exemption notice I have downloaded to my phone.

However, it is clear from this thread that some members of the public feel they have the right to challenge me, and that for some a 'I'm medically exempt' is not enough for them.

This is it in a nutshell. I don't want to have to explain myself to someone who probably wouldn't understand anyway when I'm just popping to the shop or whatever. What's more, I shouldn't need to

That's your choice but don't moan when that means you don't want to go into any shops. Other countries are managing just fine, don't understand why we can't either.

@GreytExpectations sorry yes, I meant a sunflower one. Most people don't know what they signify anyway, outside of shop staff etc who have enrolled in the scheme.

Nobody should need to explain their medical history to a stranger, much less one who has no grasp of what a condition is or entails. And nobody should potentially be denied access to a shop or service because of a disability they cannot or feel unable to explain. That is discrimination. Don't you agree?

"I'm suggesting that people should carry proof that they are exempt in order to stop piss takers not wearing masks just because they don't feel like it."

The problem is though...what sort of proof?