Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To see where this dad is coming from? RE little boy wearing make up

144 replies

Earlyrisers0 · 13/07/2020 08:39

It's on a parenting group on Facebook. I'm happy to post it to squash any concerns that I'm trolling, but I will have to blur out the boys face for obvious reasons.

A mum has made a post showing a heated exchange with her ex. Their 9 year old son went to his dad's wearing make up and nail varnish and the dad told him to remove it all. Not that it makes much of a difference but the make up wasn't applied properly, think red lipstick smeared around his mouth and chin and what looks like black eyeshadow smudged around his eyebrows.

The mum also attatched to the post a handful of pictures of their son wearing dresses, pink pyjamas with pink dummys in his mouth and my littly pony onesies.

The mum said if her ex continued to tell him he can't express himself then he'll grow to hate his dad. The dad said she shouldn't be imposing her values and beliefs onto him and he will parent his child how he sees fit when he has him. The dad clearly thinks the boy is far too young to be experimenting with gender identity and I have to say I agree with him.

I'm clearly old fashioned but am I unreasonable?

OP posts:
missperegrinespeculiar · 13/07/2020 13:16

It's funny how these things are only assumed to be forced on a child if they go against "gender roles".

Absolutely this, like when a parent raises their child vegetarian they are imposing their views, but raising them as meat eaters is just "normal"

we all, all the time impose our views on our kids, the question is, are we doing it with the child's best interest at heart and not damaging them, not whether we are in some unspecified way neutral (what would that even look like?!)

1forAll74 · 13/07/2020 13:17

I would definitely agree with the Father on this. The child would look ridiculous.

doskant · 13/07/2020 13:22

My 3yo son insists on applying my lip gloss after I do mine. He sported a fetching (badly applied) pink lip today. He also has long ringlets (he doesn’t want to cut his hair) and is often mistaken for a girl. I’m imposing nothing on him. These are his choices and I think he’s great.

Yokohamajojo · 13/07/2020 14:45

I can see both sides tbh, I have two boys and was quite determined to let them have the choice of what to play with and dress how they wanted etc (they both turned very traditionally boyish and football obsessed) Smile

I do know a mum however that is totally obsessed with getting her kids to be "alternative" and it's weird to see, her son now identify as a girl(he is 8) and the middle girl has come out as bisexual at the age of 12!

OwlBeThere · 13/07/2020 14:47

YABU, it’s a child playing. Let them play.

OwlBeThere · 13/07/2020 14:48

@Yokohamajojo my 12 year old is gay. I knew I liked boys at 12, why is she not able to know she likes girls?

LolaSmiles · 13/07/2020 14:48

It's funny how these things are only assumed to be forced on a child if they go against "gender roles".
When an adult is pushing an adult concept onto a child then it does seem that way

There's a huge difference between:

  1. Boy plays dress up at home, has had fun with makeup and nail varnish at mum's house. Dad decides the play has stopped now and they're doing something else.
And
  1. Boy plays with makeup and 'girly' things at mum's house. When dad has cleaned the makeup off the mum starts saying that dad is affecting the child's expression of their gender, and the whole thing is on social media.

The first one almost nobody cares about because kids have done that for decades. The second is all about adults trying to use their child prove how cool and 'right on' they are.

Nobody cared when girls played football, enjoyed playing in the mud or boys played dress up when I was a child. I'm sure if we were children now some adults would be scrambling to view every element of our play through their gendered lens.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 13/07/2020 15:00

I wouldn't let any child go out the house covered in make up regardless of sex, or if it was applied properly or not. A 9 year old shouldn't have a dummy, again regardless of their sex.
I will be flamed for this, but I wouldn't be letting my son wear dresses or my little pony clothes at 9 either. In the house for dress up, ok, but not outside.

Iminaglasscaseofemotion · 13/07/2020 15:06

There is a couple that live around the corner from me. They have a girl aged about 6, and a boy aged about 4. They girl is always in boys clothes, and since 2 the little boy wore dress up princess dresses every time I saw him for about a year, then moved on to normal sparkly dresses and frilly socks (can't just be a coincidence that everytime I see him he is dressed like that). I get a very strong feeling that mum and dad may be pushing these decisions on their children.

Quietlyloud · 13/07/2020 15:50

Sex of the child doesn’t even come into it, well except that if so inclined people m if they start suggesting the child is trans and that’s a whole other argument. If the dad doesn’t want his son wearing make up at his that’s okay, it’s his turn to parent and his rules go for his house. I think badly done makeup and a dummy is weird for a nine year old of either sex. Poor kid, and to have it blasted all over Facebook.

missperegrinespeculiar · 14/07/2020 04:47

LolaSmiles

But the father didn't;'t clean the make up, he forced his child to take off nail polish he had told his mother he wanted to keep, would he have forced his daughter to do the same? I really doubt it!

gender roles are fiercely imposed by society, just look at the sickening ocean of pink toys in shops aimed at girls and from which boys are excluded by some idiotic marketing decision

when my boys were in child care there was a box of books for boys and one for girls, of course fairies and unicorns for girls, dinosaurs and diggers for boys

my boys like wearing their hair long, and are continuously asked, sometimes with derision, if they are girls, thankfully they are freakishly confident and just answer "no, I am not, what's your point?"

I remember one time when one of my boys wanted a purple and black pair of shin guards and the shop assistant was very reluctant to let him have it and tried to dissuade him saying purple is for girls

quite apart from all my anecdotal evidence, there is plenty of research that shows that male and female babies are treated very differently by people, even when the researchers use the same baby dressed in pink or blue, that is to say, people are not reacting to some innate female or male baby quality, just to the clothes!

but one mother dares allowing her boy use make up and she is imposing her views on him?!

truth is, ideas are imposed on our kids all the time, the best we can do is to talk to them about what's going on so they can understand the socialisation pressures, develop critical thinking skills and hopefully find a way to be themselves!

JamesArthursEyelashes · 14/07/2020 05:18

Why on earth was this disagreement between the parents all over Facebook? They both need to grow up and discuss things in private. Poor kid.

Whatafustercluck · 14/07/2020 05:51

I'm in two minds tbh. 9yo ds will still occasionally allow his girl friends do his hair/ nails while at his cm as part of a game. We have never had an issue with it and his big sister has done similar with him since he was a toddler playing dress up. And I don't think wearing pink would keep me awake at night - DH has a number of pink (men's) tshirts he wears. Would ds now go out of the house wearing makeup and with his hair in plaits or bunches though? Absolutely not! And that is because he knows he would be ridiculed. It's all very well saying "let him play dress up if he wants to" but we are also responsible for protecting them from being easy targets for bullying. Of course in an ideal world this wouldn't be a problem, but we do not live in an ideal world. I don't know a single 9yo boy who would leave the house looking like that, even if they put makeup on at home and have been brought up to 'be themselves'. I do think that a boy who chose to do so is most likely to have been encouraged to do so, most probably to make a point.

LolaSmiles · 14/07/2020 07:42

But the father didn't;'t clean the make up, he forced his child to take off nail polish he had told his mother he wanted to keep, would he have forced his daughter to do the same? I really doubt it!
My mistake, I thought dad wanted both removing.Either way, children don't decide what they're doing.

I had my nails done at a friend's house and my parents removed it when I got back because they didn't believe in children having manicures. That's their right as parents.

If his dad doesn't want nail varnish then fine. The child is 9.

I don't disagree with you on the clothing and socialisation, but I think there is s big difference between having children with a range of interests and not buying pink/blue everything, and parents who feel the need to view every element as some sign of how right on they are with gender ideology, lots of photos of how different they are. Etc.

The difference is the parents' attitude.

In this situation it sounds like mum is quick to plaster the child on social media in pink, dresses, dummies and get the cool points associated with it, and the dad is concerned that his ex is buying into all this gender ideology.

The pair of them need to get off social media and let their child play instead of using him as a pawn on social media.

Poppinjay · 16/07/2020 18:05

I don't know a single 9yo boy who would leave the house looking like that, even if they put makeup on at home and have been brought up to 'be themselves'.

Some children would want to leave the house wearing nail varnish though and it's not appropriate to prevent them from doing so just because they are not a girl. That is imposing your own gender-stereotyping on them.

ToBBQorNotToBBQ · 16/07/2020 18:54

YANBU OP. My son had a pushchair and dolls when little but I had to sadly say no at 8 when he wanted the pink princess lunchbox for school. He simply chose another. He would die if I mentioned it now 😂

ToBBQorNotToBBQ · 16/07/2020 18:54

He may have been younger than 8 was years back

SusiArssnip · 16/07/2020 19:28

Hello Grin Halo my name is Susi Arssnip!
Mummy of two little boys (Jackson and TeeTee)
From Hampshire Flowers
Feminist
Single Gin
Anti-vax Angry

Quietlyloud · 16/07/2020 19:50

SusiArssnip Okay?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page