Son's girlfriend thinks suntans are racist

[DollyDaydream70]

I could be opening a real can of worms here, but I'm genuinely gobsmacked by a few things my Son's 18yr old girlfriend said to me last night..

First of all she asked me did I think it's racist for white girls to copy black girl's style. I had no clue what she was referring to as 'black girl's style' so asked her to elaborate. She then referred to a singer called Ariane Grande (who I know literally 0 about) and said that she tans herself until she's almost black and 'dresses like a black girl'.

I've Googled said singer and all I can find is a pic of her with Nikki Minaj where, yes, she looks dark, but so what? We've been tanning since Coco Chanel made it stylish in the 1920's, and probably long before that! What are we supposed to do? Stay indoors when the sun shines ffs?!!

Son's GF also stated that it's racist for a white person to wear corn rows in their hair. I told her that my friends and I used to corn row our hair a lot in the mid to late 80's, we used to stick wooden or plastic beads on the ends of our plaits, it was quite the fashion at the time!

What do you all think about this? Please tell me this is all going too far. I'm genuinely quite perplexed that tanning and corn rows could be deemed to be racist!

@GrumpyHoonMain

Ariane Grande and Rita Ora are both blackfishing big time. Both of their natural skin colours are paler than Gwen Stefani’s. Neither of them are women of colour (being Italian or Eastern European doesn’t count). It’s awful that they are being allowed to mislead their fans - what they are doing is effectively black face.

Do you realise that people where Ariana is from are actually descended from both Italians and Arabs, thats why they have darker skin often darker than my own Pakistani skin.

Ethnic Albanians are a specific ethnicity.

Actually I also thought Ariana Grande was BAME so your son’s girlfriend night have something there!!!

I love laying out in the sun. I like the warmth on my body that happens naturally by doing this, and getting my daily dose of Vit D. Also, if i lay in it for too long, I go red. That redness or burn over the course of the day or two, will darken as my natural melanin gets to work to protect my skin from burning further. Guess what? Melanin is a naturally occurring brown pigment in skin! That’s the side effect from being under the sun’s rays. Is there any hint of racism in me doing this?

Interesting. Part of me wants to say, WTF- she’s completely bonkers but another part of me can see why there could be some offence taken. My DSD tans herself so dark that she practically looks as though she’s doing ‘black face’ We know she’s not doing that but others may not see it like that and may think she’s being racist, who knows?

Acting on privilege, is part of the dominant white culture and then takes on black culture and does it there way and makes it all fun and cool, basically taking over something which they have no idea what it's like to really experience.

*their

I always thought Rita Ora was black! Shocked to find out she isnt! Says it all...

@LaurieMarlow

Both of their natural skin colours are paler than Gwen Stefani’s.

I know very little about AG, but unless you’ve seen her in real life with no makeup/tan on, you can’t say that with any certainty.

Google it

www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=tCsLX4WWKqK5gwfYyrOYBQ&q=ariane+grande+natural+skin+colour&oq=ariane+grande+natural+skin+colour&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBADOgIIKToICCkQFhAdEB46BwgpEAoQkwI6BQgAELEDOggIABCxAxCDAToICC4QsQMQgwE6BQguELEDOggILhCxAxCTAjoCCAA6BwguEAoQkwI6AgguOgQIABAKOgQILhAKOgQIABANOggIABAIEA0QHjoECCEQFToICCEQFhAdEB46BwghEAoQoAFQohBY7E5g0FBoBHAAeACAAYcBiAGhFJIBBDM1LjKYAQCgAQGwAQ8&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp#imgdii=pXNkxysom7RwKM&imgrc=x-CTlZrnHCHTsM

@SimonJT - might be the case, but AG’s skin tone is whiter than Gwen Stefani’s. Google it. It isn’t a secret.

@GrumpyHoonMain Yes, we are aware of photoshopped images of her.

@SimonJT - the photoshopped images are the darker skinned ones. Vogue got criticised for it.

@eddiemairswife clearly that's very different if they're giving them out. It would have been different if you were white, in a dominant culture group and went 'ooh I want to look like an Indian person today' and tried to dress up like an Indian person.

[quote GrumpyHoonMain]@SimonJT - the photoshopped images are the darker skinned ones. Vogue got criticised for it.[/quote]
If I showed you a photo of me in February I would look ‘white’ if I showed you a photo now I would look brown. I’m Pakistani, I don’t stop being Pakistani when I don’t have a tan.

The sons gf is referring to cultural appropriation which I'm not in denial about but some youngsters are taking it too far. I was told plaits were wrong by a young friend but I've worn 2 plaits my whole life (apparently it's Native American, but it's native British too!)

This is as bad as what happens in India. A lot of white actresses are making a lot of money there passing themselves off as ‘half-Indian’.

@SimonJT - I am of Indo-Pakistani origin too. The Most Pakistanis can only pass for white amongst other Pakistanis. Even the palest, blue eyed, red haired amongst us don’t pass for white so don’t try to fudge the issue.

Ps my (my age) friend has brought me a beautiful dress from Tanzania, apparently to wear it is wrong but it is a gift bought for me to wear and she (Tanzanian) doesn't see it as cultural appropriation! Life is complicated

I think cultures have influenced other culture since we evolved as social animals. Cultural appropriation has been happening for millennia it is how culture changes and develops.

I wonder if the people who worry about cultural appropriation, who is allowed to wear corn rows or ‘ethnic’ jewelry are
the same people who would accuse black people of ‘acting white’ or being a coconut/Oreo (black outside, white inside)?

I think the UK is importing a dangerously divisive way of thinking from the US. I also think that this racial and social division is benefitting people at the very top.

Anyone can have plaits, maids and factory workers in the UK wore/wear plaits, class-based oppression.
Hardly any white women in the UK would wear their hair in cornrows, apart from on holiday abroad. They might wear boxer braids, but this style was never exclusive to black women.

Women are pressurised to look 'polished' in certain work environments (not mine, there are all sorts of hairstyles including dreadlocks and afros; it's not an issue).

Many, many white women don't have sleek straight hair and also (feel like they) have to spend time, money and chemicals straightening it/ dying it: highlighting it etc, to 'conform' in a corporate work environment, or in a 'glamorous' role. Both white and black women could choose to keep their hair very short (and easier to manage)in a corporate environment. We have anti-discrimination laws that cover hair and they should be used if needed.

I'm not saying this to deny racism or discrimination, but I wish we could find a common ground, rather than this US-centric view of the world.

@WakeAndBake

I wonder if the people who worry about cultural appropriation, who is allowed to wear corn rows or ‘ethnic’ jewelry are the same people who would accuse black people of ‘acting white’ or being a coconut/Oreo (black outside, white inside)?

That's been my experience, yes they often are.

This thread has left me feeling really sad.

I grew up moving around different countries making friends with lots of people from different cultures and I have lots of mixed raced cousins and extended family.

Reading a lot of this has made me feel like I've maybe been doing lots of things wrong.
I'd never heard of black fishing until reading this. I'm horrified.

One of my best friends is black and a similar size to me. We swap clothes ALL the time,should we not be doing this? I'm now worried that people will be thinking that I'm 'black fishing'.

Where does it end? My Asian and South American relatives and I do each others hair and makeup,granted not as much as we did when growing up especially with the distance between us now.

I realise this must sound really naive and I don't mean it to.

I just love so many things from so many different cultures and feel so lucky that I've been included in lots of their traditions. Now I'm left thinking that I have somehow been racist 🤷🏼‍♀️

And (finally from me) I'm going to an Indian wedding (when it gets reorganised due to c19) and it's expected for all women to wear saris, I wouldn't be stopped exactly but the first thing my friend said with the invite was don't buy a sari, borrow one because she and her sister had dozens some worn once (the implication being that I should wear one and not English dress!) I've been to 3 and all white women wore saris (men wore ordinary suits though). Life is complicated!

Tanning is not racist no matter how dark you go. It’s still your natural skin colour. It’s true that many white people can naturally get darker skin than some black people. It’s also true that some Asian and Australian aborigine people can be blonder than white people without using hair bleach or dye.

The issue with Ariana Grande and others is that they aren’t just tanning to be tan. They are tanning, dressing, speaking, singing, dancing and acting like a BAME person specifically so that they can appeal to an audience who might think that they are part BAME or BAME based on their appearance + actions. It’s the sum of everything they do, including keeping a very dark tan that makes it blackfishing.

Any one of the things by itself is not a big issue as many can be naturally occurring- skin colour, Afro hair, accent & dress if raised in BAME neighbourhood or country. It’s the fact that ALL these things are being acquired and they are ALL to make AG and others appear as BAME as possible.