to think sign language should be taught in schools?

[00100001]

I was chatting with my friend the other day, and i'm actually wondering why kids don;t learn this as standard?

In primary kids will be taught French (for example) but not BSL/Makaton? Baby Signing is around and about, seems shame it's not continued in schools.

I have always thought it should be taught, even just to a basic level (Level 1 maybe by the end of primary) to make yourself understood and understand a d/Deaf person a little.

The fact it doesn't have legal status is also ridiculous, imo.

What would you like removed from the curriculum to replace with sign language and where do propose to find the teachers?

Lack of skilled teachers. Some primary schools in my county do teach BSL, and use it regularly in class. Others use Makaton. There are so many things people want schools to teach, what subject would you drop so that they could hold weekly signing classes?

I think it's a lovely idea but tough to fit into the curriculum, especially with many deaf children now using cochlear implants instead of BSL.

YANBU, but I doubt it will happen. One of my classmates at primary school was deaf, and so all through the school we learnt BSL. It was part of circle time, or just in general lessons, we didn't have specific lessons. Obviously it started with very basic words which we used everyday so were easily picked up, and carried on; no exams of course or anything, but it was actually really helpful in learning how words are broken down etc. I studied it as an additional unit at uni alongside my degree as well, and although I don't have any deaf family or friends, it has come in useful a few times.

Makaton is a communication aid, not a sign language.

I’d love to see BSL taught in schools but ideally by deaf teachers coming in to do it.

Children love learning signing. I’ve had oversubscribed clubs in every school I’ve worked in.

There’s hopefully a bsl gcse coming soon...
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-wants-british-sign-language-gcse-as-soon-as-possible/amp/

@noblegiraffe

What would you like removed from the curriculum to replace with sign language and where do propose to find the teachers?

Hmm, remove French lessons?

The teachers we can magic up :P

especially with many deaf children now using cochlear implants instead of BSL.

It isn’t one or the other.

It would just be lovely and nice if it was just part of the everyday teaching rather than "lessons" iyswim?

A bit like Baby Signing is a complement to speaking - the more it's used, the more it will be used. So if the teacher and students were just using as a normal part of their daily activities.

The fact it doesn't have legal status is also ridiculous, imo.

The fact our crappy government can’t even be bothered to sort out its own BSL interpretation when Boris speaks tells me that isn’t coming any time soon. He did a speech to school leavers that wasn’t signed. Obviously no bsl using teenagers leaving this year...

So if the teacher and students were just using as a normal part of their daily activities.

Er, most teachers aren’t exactly proficient on Bsl to use it as part of their normal activities.

Learning French is a 'gateway' to learning other languages in Secondary, and to be honest if anything we should be having more and better language lessons in primary.

@noblegiraffe

You dont need to remove anything and schools have budgets to pay for people to come in an run clubs.

I'm 31, so I was in high school a while ago. They taught sign language. It was a lunch time class held in the library. They had to move it to the big hall because so many kids went; the majority of kids in the school went to it. It was only for 40 minutes once a week but we loved it.

A bit like Baby Signing is a complement to speaking - the more it's used, the more it will be used.

BSL is not a complement to speaking. It’s a full language in its own right with its own grammar rules and different word order to English.

Im not quite sure you’ve thought this through.

@00100001

It would just be lovely and nice if it was just part of the everyday teaching rather than "lessons" iyswim?

A bit like Baby Signing is a complement to speaking - the more it's used, the more it will be used. So if the teacher and students were just using as a normal part of their daily activities.

See this actually annoys me, sorry I know you mean well but BSL is a full language with its own grammatical structure. What you're talking about is SSE. Makaton isn't a language. SSE isn't a language. Baby signing definitely isn't a language. The amount of people who have done a few weeks of baby signing who think they can somehow use that to communicate with deaf people is unreal. It shows a basic misunderstanding of the complexities of BSL.

schools have budgets to pay for people to come in an run clubs.

We have what??

Anything extracurricular by outside agencies at my kids’ school is paid for by parents.

schools have budgets to pay for people to come in an run clubs

Have you read anything about state-maintained schools in the last ten years?
Budgets have been stretched hugely because pupil numbers have dramatically increased, without the associated funding increase necessary.
Schools can't even afford to staff themselves fully (or did you miss the whole MPs dumping their children on the steps of Downing Street to protest about a four day school week?)
Schools have had unprecedented extra costs this year, not seen any money yet. Schools have even had to pay exam fees for an exam season that has been cancelled FFS.

[quote BobbieDraper]@noblegiraffe

You dont need to remove anything and schools have budgets to pay for people to come in an run clubs.

I'm 31, so I was in high school a while ago. They taught sign language. It was a lunch time class held in the library. They had to move it to the big hall because so many kids went; the majority of kids in the school went to it. It was only for 40 minutes once a week but we loved it.[/quote]
You clearly have no idea of what school budgets look like now!

@noblegiraffe

What would you like removed from the curriculum to replace with sign language and where do propose to find the teachers?

Surely it could come under PSHE? It's a social need for thousands of people. Even learning a new sign every other day would give children (and teachers) a chance to learn around 100 signs each year! Even if only 30% of those signs are remembered over the course of that year, they could have around 200 signs by the time they leave primary school - helping inclusion for hearing impaired pupils and exposing hearing children to BSL who may then go on to study it further and get a job in the field.

@7ofNine

Both my kids are at a state primary school in Scotland. Prior to lockdown, the school ran various lunch time and morning clubs. Some taken by the staff, some taken by paid instructors. We dont pay for the clubs.

The school obviously runs a lot of fundraising activities through the year, they choose how to spend their budget and they spend some of it on martial arts, football, drama clubs etc.

ToD learning random signs isn’t learning BSL. It’s learning signs.

There was a sign class in my high school.

To get to a real level of competence is like any other language, it takes years of study. And there is also the question of how often anyone will use it, many people rarely have the need. Which limits developing fluency and also how useful it will be to any people. It's also not really available to people as a written language, whereas if you learn something like French, you can use it to read as well as speak.

It's also not really available to people as a written language, whereas if you learn something like French, you can use it to read as well as speak.

What does that matter?

As for learning BSL in schools. Like any language, you must be immersed in it to remember how to hold a conversation in it. And you need to study for a long time to become competent enough to converse with a native BSL user. If you met a French person today, having passed your French GCSE day 20 years ago, would you be able to have a conversation with them? Beyond saying hello and your name, or maybe asking them where is the pen or can you open a window.

So the idea that teaching BSL in schools would lead to the world opening up communication wise for deaf is a fallacy. However it would almost certainly lead to more interpreters, which are badly needed, and more people with an understanding of deaf awareness- also badly needed. So yes I would like to see it taught in schools but is it the answer to the language barrier when someone has a hearing loss - no.

I am a bit prickly about this as you see many people declare they're going to learn sign language so they can communicate with deaf people - in a sort of pitying way, as if deaf don't have a myriad of communication options - who then start a half hearted attempt through an online course (as opposed to a certified class with a deaf tutor), only to abandon it a few months later when they realise it's not as easy as just signing a few words as you speak. You're talking about the language of a subculture when you're talking about BSL but people get it so wrong. Without integration with deaf people and understanding of the history and cultural context of BSL it's just a bit pointless.

I feel like I’m being grumpy here but nobody would think they were learning the language of French or German by just learning words in English word order with none of the grammar that comes with it. I don’t know why people think that signed languages should be any different. People don’t seem to respect BSL/ASL/any of the other masses of different sign languages from all over the world as proper languages in the same way as they do spoken ones.