to think sign language should be taught in schools?

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I was chatting with my friend the other day, and i'm actually wondering why kids don;t learn this as standard?

In primary kids will be taught French (for example) but not BSL/Makaton? Baby Signing is around and about, seems shame it's not continued in schools.

Are we back to ‘If only teachers tried harder, cared more and were more positive about exciting innovations, the world would be 🌈 🦄 💩’
I’d love to see inclusion done properly, nationwide and everywhere.
But PSHCE is full of sex and drugs and citizenship and wellbeing and healthcare and everything else. BSL needs to be taught properly and with respect, not just tagged on to the end of a lesson.
And there is no time. Or money.

@DressingGownofDoom I feel like we’re posting the same things at the same time.

Fellow ToD/terp?

Over the past few years on mumsnet, I have seen people suggest that schools should ‘just squeeze in’ things that they as a parent feel should be a priority, without cutting anything out of the existing school day. I’ve seen suggestions of

Makaton
BSL
Music tuition
First Aid
Daily PE for half an hour
Tooth brushing

I’m sure there have been others.

There is no wriggle room for these things in the school day and certainly no budget.

Luckily parents have the option to do any of these things with their child at home if they wish to.

@PurpleDaisies

A bit like Baby Signing is a complement to speaking - the more it's used, the more it will be used.

BSL is not a complement to speaking. It’s a full language in its own right with its own grammar rules and different word order to English.

Im not quite sure you’ve thought this through.

It;s almost as though I was just having a conversation with a friend and mooted the idea on a forum to find out a bit more about it all... ;)

@PurpleDaisies

It's also not really available to people as a written language, whereas if you learn something like French, you can use it to read as well as speak.

What does that matter?

Because it adds a whole different element of utility. If I am speaking French, I use it when I am in France or Quebec or meet French people, or maybe watch French films.

But I can also read French books or newspapers, or maybe write a letter in French. I suddenly have access to hundreds of years of French culture and thought. Even if I never meet a French person, ever.

So more potential use for the time spent learning.

[quote PurpleDaisies]@DressingGownofDoom I feel like we’re posting the same things at the same time.

Fellow ToD/terp?[/quote]
Parent of a deaf child!

@DressingGownofDoom well, perhaps this is why we need it taught? there's a whole section of society who we are unable to communicate with...or understand their language and it;s complexities

I've already learnt a lot in 30 minutes :)

This is something to include a section of society.

But clearly that's something that children don't need to be taught, it's on a par with declaring schools should teach tooth brushing

[quote 00100001]@DressingGownofDoom well, perhaps this is why we need it taught? there's a whole section of society who we are unable to communicate with...or understand their language and it;s complexities

I've already learnt a lot in 30 minutes :)[/quote]
Are you sure you can't communicate with them? Have you tried communicating with a deaf person?

But I can also read French books or newspapers, or maybe write a letter in French. I suddenly have access to hundreds of years of French culture and thought. Even if I never meet a French person, ever.

Oh, silly me. I forgot that no deaf history exists, no blogs in BSL, there are no programmes made in BSL, no BSL theatre online, no books written by deaf people and you can’t send video messages to BSL.

Oh wait...

@DressingGownofDoom

Parent of a deaf child! Ah! You must be used to fighting the good fight for your child. Hope they’ve been well supported through the lockdown. I know online teaching has been hard for a lot of deaf kids.

and maybe we don;t need to be fluent in BSL, but enough to make ourselves understood would be enough?

for exmaple, I remember basics of French, but I'm not fluent. But that doesn't matter? I can 'get by' or make myself understood or know enough to help someone a little bit.

Thanks @PurpleDaisies thankfully he's only 3 so no online teaching yet! And his CIs aren't due a remap for another few months so he hasn't really suffered like some of his peers. I found continuing my BSL class through zoom impossible though so I'm going to have to restart again at some stage. Ironically he's not even interested in signing!

You ToDs do an amazing job. Ours is like a member of our family. She's so patient and good at calming me down as we move through all the early milestones

I think it should be offered alongside french/Spanish GCSE options. DS13 is awful at french and doesn't enjoy it but has to take a language. He's learning BSL online, he wants to be a paramedic and thinks this will come in useful and he's getting so good at it! I wish he could swap french for BSL

@DressingGownofDoom

I did actually take a beginner BSL course, hada deaf neighbour and a hard of hearing parent - I can communicate with them, yes.

But that doens't mean I shouldn't learn a bit of 'basic' BSL? It's bit like going to Spain and expecting them all to speak English and not even learning "Una cerveza por favor" or what ever

I think it would be good pp - but the curriculum is full already. We went to classes to learn Lvl 1 and 2. But agree it needs to be taught by deaf tutors. Otherwise I think there's so much you don't learn.

We've taught DS and he understands most things if we use it but won't do it in public.

And I've used it for work (civil service) much more than I've used my very rusty GCSE French.

And I've used it for work (civil service) much more than I've used my very rusty GCSE French.

and maybe we don;t need to be fluent in BSL, but enough to make ourselves understood would be enough?

While that would be lovely, it would be much more realistic and useful to teach communication strategies instead. Deaf people are used to dealing with non BSL proficient hearing people every day. How do you think they manage in everyday life otherwise?

@Letseatgrandma aside from toothbrushing, they are all extremely useful life skills that would benefit the child as well as the community. We know that some children wouldn't have access to them outside of school. But then if there's no exams to be passed then why bother.

@PurpleDaisies i see what you mean.

[quote 00100001]@DressingGownofDoom

I did actually take a beginner BSL course, hada deaf neighbour and a hard of hearing parent - I can communicate with them, yes.

But that doens't mean I shouldn't learn a bit of 'basic' BSL? It's bit like going to Spain and expecting them all to speak English and not even learning "Una cerveza por favor" or what ever[/quote]
But you're not talking about a basic sign class. You're talking about having all teachers and students using SSE in all classes throughout the school day. They don't even do that in a lot of deaf schools.

A Deaf awareness class in schools would be much, much more useful for improving communication between the deaf and hearing worlds.

but then the onus is on the deaf person to make themselves understood - and it seems it's bit like we're the ignorant British tourist who refuses to learn even hello/please/thankyou in the destination country's language?