to think sign language should be taught in schools?

[00100001]

I was chatting with my friend the other day, and i'm actually wondering why kids don;t learn this as standard?

In primary kids will be taught French (for example) but not BSL/Makaton? Baby Signing is around and about, seems shame it's not continued in schools.

I am a deaf person but do not believe it should be taught in schools. As the above poster says, if you don’t practice you just lose it. Would I want my hearing children to be taught sign language, something they would not benefit from? Er, no. I would however, be happy for them to have a couple of lessons on deaf awareness.

@00100001

It would just be lovely and nice if it was just part of the everyday teaching rather than "lessons" iyswim?

A bit like Baby Signing is a complement to speaking - the more it's used, the more it will be used. So if the teacher and students were just using as a normal part of their daily activities.

That's like saying youd like a spot of belly dancing alongside your halibut from the fish counter in Morrisons.

Fine if all fishmongers know how to belly dance. Bit of a stretch otherwise

Lovely idea, but very niche. I’ve somehow got through life without hardly ever using BSL (or the other things mentioned day pp!) There just is not time in the school curriculum.

For all the people saying drop french or other languages for BSL.

Estimated BSL speakers worldwide 250,000
Estimated French speakers worldwide 274 million
Estimated Spanish speakers worldwide 420 million
Estimated German speakers worldwide 229 million

My son was born profoundly deaf- went to a school for the deaf-we used SSE first and then used BSL. I would rather children were taught deaf awareness and as others have done -have after school classes for children that were interested in learning BSL.If you could get even a few young children interested early enough to go on to interpreting- that would be far more helpful in reality for a BSL user.It is an expensive nightmare try in to get an interpreter at short notice!

Can I ask what might be a stupid question? If you are fluent in BSL and you meet a French person who is fluent in the French version of sign language - can you communicate with them? Or does each country have its own completely different form of sign language?

My ds has learnt a little bit of sign language at school. There is a girl in his class for whom BSL is her first language (she is Hearing but both her parents are Deaf). She taught them some basics. He has also learnt a little bit of French, Portuguese, Polish and Arabic from other kids in his class. At his age (he’s Year 2) I think it is good that he is aware that languages other than English exist - even if he doesn’t remember the phrases in 3 months time.

@PurpleDaisies

The fact it doesn't have legal status is also ridiculous, imo.

The fact our crappy government can’t even be bothered to sort out its own BSL interpretation when Boris speaks tells me that isn’t coming any time soon. He did a speech to school leavers that wasn’t signed. Obviously no bsl using teenagers leaving this year...

If it is this one, it has captions. Which are a) far easier to provide than signing, and b) accessible to more people (e.g. people with hearing impairments/speech processing issues who don't use BSL).

@myfurloughedfriend

When DD was in reception, there was a boy with quite a few additional needs in her class. The teacher taught the class some sign language as it was the only way they could communicate with him, it was lovey.

He didn't go up to Y1 with the class and stayed in reception for a few years, and I think went into a special school afterwards.

I don't understand the point of your post?

Are you saying it was a waste of time teaching the kids a few Makaton signs to make this childs life easier? It would have been Makaton Or are you pleased your child learned a few token signs at the expense of a non verbal child with additional needs?

I've never read such a so glad it doesn't affect me post before!!!

@Mumoftwoyoungkids
Each country has its own language- ASL is fur the US-Ours Bsl -French have their own
My son did an exchange trip with French students and nobody understood each other but they did learn new signs 😂

Can I ask what might be a stupid question? If you are fluent in BSL and you meet a French person who is fluent in the French version of sign language - can you communicate with them? Or does each country have its own completely different form of sign language?

They are different languages yes. I always teach my class the ISL alphabet every year (more to expose them to the idea of there being 3 national languages than anything else). Twinkl drives me up the wall as their ISL materials are actually mislabelled BSL stuff An ISL user would look at you like you'd ten heads if you assumed that was their language.

Anyway OP, I don't think full teaching of sign in schools is necessary. I do the ISL alphabet and some Deaf awareness to give them a sense of it - some kids go on and do proper classes outside school with a qualified ISL tutor, which is great. I think the curriculum is too overloaded to do it justice in school.

Although for other teachers out there, I do find spelling out words letter by letter in ISL is a great behaviour management trick to refocus my class

While that would be lovely, it would be much more realistic and useful to teach communication strategies instead. Deaf people are used to dealing with non BSL proficient hearing people every day. How do you think they manage in everyday life otherwise?

I agree with this. My profoundly deaf from birth aunt had no time at all for BSL even though she had obviously been taught it at her deaf school. She relied on lip reading and the very occasional note in her notepad - usually more because we couldn't understand what she was saying (she was pretty much non-vocal) rather than the other way around.

On a slightly lighter note my DS and I went to watch my grandchildren perform Christmas Carols-as you probably know it’s quite the norm for the children to sign some parts too.My DS enjoyed the fact that it was signed u til we got to ‘Rudolf the Rednose Reindeer’- the children had been taught the sign for rabbit rather than reindeer.We tried really hard not to laugh in church 😂

@elliejjtiny

What is SSE? My 7 year old has glue ear and we do makaton with him and so does his teacher. Is this wrong? Should we be teaching him BSL? I'm ashamed to admit that the only BSL I know is finger spelling the alphabet. There was a mum at toddler group who was deaf and we communicated with a mixture of makaton, fingerspelling BSL and writing things down.

I think it's a good idea to teach signing in schools but I've no idea how it would work, whether it should be a club or included in lessons or whether it should be makaton or BSL.

The makaton signs are BSL signs, the difference is with makaton they are more isolated signs reinforce with speech, BSL has it own grammar structure so more like learning a foreign language, it's also evolving continuously (for example there is a new sign for COVID-19) there are also regional variations. I am fluent in BSL (level 6 - interpreter) my close friend is a primary teacher in a mixed deaf/hearing school and teaches in both simultaneously, (we both have/had deaf parent(s) so grew up with this ability the same as a person with a non-english speaking parent grows up knowing 2 languages ) we often speak and sign at the same time to each other unconsciously, in a noisy environment (concert, loud pub, on the tube etc) we just sign to each other much to the bemusement / annoyance of other friends. The deaf community in the UK are often isolated from society due to communication issues, even a few basic signs will make a huge difference to a deaf person, if you see a deaf person and know any signs then use them, they are not shy and you will make their day by giving it a go!

I suppose it would possibly be feasible to teach basic signs? A bit like you're taught basic music reading in some schools, so it could at least pique sine children's interest enough to want to learn the language? And in the mean time most people would to remember a few signs which may come in handy one day?

I don't think the fact you're not immersed in the language is a reason not to teach it. After all we get taught music, French etc no-one expects to be fluent in French GCSE, or be able to bash out a piano symphony...

And also,if everyone at school was taught basic signing then people may be more inclined to use it, and D/deaf people may not feel the need to not sign / communicate so much?

Kind of normalise signing?
Dies that make sense?

My adult son is Deaf.
Because of this I became immersed in the Deaf world, you need to realise learning sign language as a hobby and learning bsl are universes apart. Bsl is a beautiful and complex language, using facial e expression, along with placement of words.
I am a qualified BSL interpreter, but would never in a million years teach the language, only a Deaf person should do that. It's their language, which was denied them for many years (my uncles included in that) and forced to 'speak' a language that wasnt natural.
As for the 'oh, they have implants now' they are just amazing hearing aids, the child is still Deaf.
Deaf people also dont need help in any way, day to day living is fine , obviously hospital visits, theatre, subtitles etc.... but not for life in general.
It's nice for Deaf children to have hearing friends that can pick up signs, and they do, so naturally.
I'm torn about it being taught in schools, not against, but not sure how it could be done, without it being patronising.

@Mollymalone123
I agree about the Deaf awareness, that definitely should be taught.
My Nephew, Deaf, has a business that does seminars and goes to workplaces and places of education to teach this.
If you are not Deaf aware, its difficult to know what is an unsuitable environment.

Why on earth would the government bother to introduce it to the curriculum when they can't even be bothered to have a BSL interpreter on their live announcements on tv?? The WHOLE way through the pandemic NOT ONCE did they have an interpreter!! It's disgusting!!

What does D/deaf mean? Are D/deaf people a different group from deaf people?

As someone who is apparently almost impossible to lip read (have had a few angry/frustrated customers whilst working customer service jobs during uni) I can see some benefit in learning BSL. However now that I work in a professional office job I just haven’t come across a need for it and I would have forgotten everything I have learnt.

Deaf people are people who are involved in the Deaf community as its own culture, as opposed to deaf with a small d which is just about the hearing loss.

Lovely idea but completely impractical, the curriculum and teaching time is already squeezed impossibly tight as it is.
BSL clubs after school would be good.

@noblegiraffe

What would you like removed from the curriculum to replace with sign language and where do propose to find the teachers?

This.

As a Reception teacher I used to do Makaton signs along with songs when I had a child using Makaton in the class. But the curriculum is already crowded and it would be hard to make time for full-on lessons.

One of my grandsons is learning BSL as part of his DoE. Out of school groups like this might be one way of doing it.

I believe BSL is a "need to know" type subjec.
I am not sure that by the time our children will have to communicate in BSL, they will remember a few lessons from primary school beyond "hello & good bye". The same as with Spanish or French if not continued in secondary , the attainment into adulthood is very poor.