To mask or not to mask

[coffeewithmilk]

This thread might have some divided opinions

I have been wearing a face covering whenever I go into a shop or enclosed space where I cannot social distance - for example: went to IKEA this morning and put my mask on. I'm really shocked at the amount of people not wearing one.
I would have thought with everything that has happened the last few months that people would be inclined to wear a mask, but it's almost like nothing has happened... and feel like I even get some strange looks when I am wearing one.

Just for context: I'm not in the UK. Currently in ROI.

Do people think they are superior and won't catch anything so they don't bother putting one on?

AIBU with this?

FACE COVERINGS
are what most research is into - masks. visors and scarves/bandanas.whatever COVERING your face.

why do so many people translate that to a mask?
& why do so many people wearing a mask think it will work draping it under their chin?

@WeAllHaveWings

This feels like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

I see this again and again and it is a poor argument. There are more horses in the stable that can be stopped now by bolting the door.

Social distancing is reducing, interactions indoors are increasing it makes complete sense to wear now. Probably should have been earlier, but that doesn't take away from wearing now.

Couldn't agree more! Sick of seeing the horse has bolted excuse!

@FrogOfFrogHall

I am undecided on this one. I wore a face covering today in the supermarket. It created a damp warm environment around my face which we know are good conditions for the virus to thrive. It kept falling down from my nose so I had to keep touching it to pull it up. And then Im touching other things (such as the trolley) that other people will touch after me. I had put sanitiser on in the car and before entering the supermarket and without a mask I would definitely not touch my face at all whilst in there. However with the mask I was touching the mask / my face more than normal even though I was making a conscious effort not to. Also if I need to sneeze or cough (unusual for me) I would normally do it into my arm. I don't know whether there is any evidence yet about how well masks protect vs not masked but ensuring you cover your face when sneezing or coughing? I'm happy to wear one if it's going to help but I just don't know what's best at the moment, I assume the evidence isn't clear or they would be mandatory.

Just get a better fitted mask!

@Eledamorena

I'm British but living in Thailand and it's so interesting to watch the different reactions to this. Here, mask-wearing is considered a courtesy if you are even slightly under the weather and it's normal for a number if passengers on a train or one or two kids in a class to be wearing a mask at any given time. Really bad pollution means that during certain periods of the year, many more people wear masks (including children).

It became complusory in Thailand to wear masks some time ago and it remains complusory in shops, malls, on public transport (including taxis). This is relaxing slightly and I often wear mine under my chin until I am close to other people as it is super hot and gross and I don't enjoy wearing it, but I totally understand the requirement to do so. I wore one even when heavily pregnant in VERY hot, humid weather so while I know there are multiple reasons why people might be unable to wear a mask (as several posters here have detailed) I think for many more people it is a case of preferring not to.

To those disputing the science of it... I get it, there are mixed reports on them, but they certainly don't harm you (medical reasons excepted) so wouldn't you rather everyone wore them just in case they ARE a factor in reducing transmission? Worth a try, no?!

It is crazy for those of us in Asia to watch the numbers of cases and deaths in the UK and yet also see how unwilling many people are to wear a mask and to see lockdown being lifted. We've had ZERO locally-transmitted cases in 6+ weeks, the only cases recorded are in people entering the country from abroad and they are in state quarantine so will not spread the virus. The UK seems horrifying from over here!

(I'm aware figures may not be accurate in either place and I was especially sceptical of Thai data early on, but we certainly don't have overburdened hospitals or bodies in the streets, so the figures do not appear to be wildly off).

I don't understand the reluctance among anyone who doesn't have a genuine reason not to wear one. Maybe I've been culturally acclimatised to Asia more than I thought! There is certainly a sense of people here being far more biddable and generally following whatever is put in place even if they disagree, whereas in the UK (in many western countries?) there is more of a 'the government can't make me!' sort of sentiment. Or so it seems from the media and some posts here confirm that view. I wonder if I would feel differently if I were in the UK right now.

Anyway I'm rambling but I do find it interesting how differently people react to the prospect of masks...

Great post!

@InFiveMins

I don't and won't wear a mask.I don't need to explain why. I simply don't want to, so won't.

Selfish idiot

Sick of seeing the horse has bolted excuse!

It’s a reason not an excuse. Every day the number of infections falls. If I didn’t wear a mask when almost 1,000 people a day were dying, I’m certainly not wearing one now. I don’t go anywhere now that I didn’t go in April or May.

Are the people moaning about masks the ones who were complaining about Easter eggs in April?

If it makes you feel better wear one. Let everyone else get on with their own thing. I

Mn just highlights how many selfish people there are.

It’s been seven weeks since VE Day when people said NHS wards would be swamped and thousands would die due to selfish people sitting in the street enjoying themselves (without wearing masks).

It’s been six weeks since schools went back (with no masks) and everyone said how dangerous, teachers would be put at terrible risk, it will cause a rise in infections.

It’s been four weeks since the BLM protests - and everyone said how irresponsible, thousands will die.

It’s been 2.5 weeks since lots of people went to sit on beaches (without wearing masks) and everyone said how irresponsible, thousands will die.

In fact there have been no spikes after any of these events. Infections are in free fall (have fallen by 98% since early May...all without mass mask wearing). Hospitals are very quiet - hardly any cases requiring treatment.

So why has mask wearing suddenly become a thing? There IS no “solid scientific evidence” that it’s worthwhile. There have been no reliable studies which prove mass mask wearing stops infection (rather than the interventions that happen at the same time, like handwashing, social distancing, isolating, quarantining, banning mass gatherings or closing care homes to visitors, contact tracing etc).

The driver of this seems to be cultural (esp in Asia), social and psychological, not medical. It is the ultimate placebo. Wear a flimsy strip of paper or damp cotton over your face, and you instantly feel virtuous and safe. Genius! If the Government mandates them it won’t be because they are effective, which it knows is not the case - it will be because they calculate that more people will go back to work if they feel (albeit wrongly) virtuous and safe. You can see this in their priorities to date: masks on public transport but not in gyms, masks in healthcare settings but not in pubs. It makes no sense. Either it’s too dangerous to be around other people without a mask or it isn’t. And if it’s still too dangerous, given how flimsy and ineffective masks are, then surely people should be staying at home instead?

@Sonineties

It’s been seven weeks since VE Day when people said NHS wards would be swamped and thousands would die due to selfish people sitting in the street enjoying themselves (without wearing masks).

It’s been six weeks since schools went back (with no masks) and everyone said how dangerous, teachers would be put at terrible risk, it will cause a rise in infections.

It’s been four weeks since the BLM protests - and everyone said how irresponsible, thousands will die.

It’s been 2.5 weeks since lots of people went to sit on beaches (without wearing masks) and everyone said how irresponsible, thousands will die.

In fact there have been no spikes after any of these events. Infections are in free fall (have fallen by 98% since early May...all without mass mask wearing). Hospitals are very quiet - hardly any cases requiring treatment.

So why has mask wearing suddenly become a thing? There IS no “solid scientific evidence” that it’s worthwhile. There have been no reliable studies which prove mass mask wearing stops infection (rather than the interventions that happen at the same time, like handwashing, social distancing, isolating, quarantining, banning mass gatherings or closing care homes to visitors, contact tracing etc).

The driver of this seems to be cultural (esp in Asia), social and psychological, not medical. It is the ultimate placebo. Wear a flimsy strip of paper or damp cotton over your face, and you instantly feel virtuous and safe. Genius! If the Government mandates them it won’t be because they are effective, which it knows is not the case - it will be because they calculate that more people will go back to work if they feel (albeit wrongly) virtuous and safe. You can see this in their priorities to date: masks on public transport but not in gyms, masks in healthcare settings but not in pubs. It makes no sense. Either it’s too dangerous to be around other people without a mask or it isn’t. And if it’s still too dangerous, given how flimsy and ineffective masks are, then surely people should be staying at home instead?

Really well said I completely agree

Gets my vote too.

Guidelines and rules are made for the majority of people not for everyone apart from Mrs Jones of No.32 Redbrick Lane

apparently Michael yes it’s perfectly reasonable that someone drives 30 miles to test their eyesight Gove thinks wearing masks should be left for public to use their common sense. Well Michale Gove’s bar for common sense is as we all know very very low

It’s beyond embarrassing it’s shameful that this government has handled the pandemic so poorly and is continuing to and not learning from other countries and how well much better they have managed

It’s only been two week since non essential shops have reopened and a week since pubs/bars have reopened

But yes let’s not follow countries that have managed so much better than we have

No I dont and I work for a supermarket. If asked to by the government then I will. I've tried one but It didnt last long

@ Sonineties

I agree with the thrust of your post BUT what if masks were also worn ie do you think there would have been a marginal improved safety mitigation element too? Would some more mask wearing helped to save others in our communities? Obviously masks in combination with all other common sense mitigation measures like hibernation, social distancing and hands scrubbing etc.

I think there is a big embarrassment factor. If more people wear them then it won't be embarrassing. Make it compulsory and get gp's to issue exemption certificates if necessary.

It’s been seven weeks since VE Day when people said NHS wards would be swamped and thousands would die due to selfish people sitting in the street enjoying themselves (without wearing masks).

It’s been six weeks since schools went back (with no masks) and everyone said how dangerous, teachers would be put at terrible risk, it will cause a rise in infections.

It’s been four weeks since the BLM protests - and everyone said how irresponsible, thousands will die.

It’s been 2.5 weeks since lots of people went to sit on beaches (without wearing masks) and everyone said how irresponsible, thousands will die.

Not sure who these people are, but scientific data points to transmission ocurring mainly indoors, and much less so outdoors.
I virtually never wear a mask outdoors.
Indoors, where many people gather, yes. But restaurants are open with distancing and customers end up being without masks.

The low numbers at the moment in the UK mean that there won't be sudden rises, but don't think numbers won't start going up again if people stop distancing altogether. And nobody wants more lockdowns.

You can see this in their priorities to date: masks on public transport but not in gyms, masks in healthcare settings but not in pubs. It makes no sense. Either it’s too dangerous to be around other people without a mask or it isn’t.

I agree, but it's an issue with the UK government, not masks.
Other governments have applied different rules.
Once again, the UK follows a different path... we'll see.

Do countries that normally wear masks even in non Covid times have lower seasonal flu/cold figures? It would be interesting to know in this whole debate.

I accept that some people will struggle to tolerate a mask, but they are also a lot of people who COULD wear a mask but dont because they won't put up with a small degree of discomfort. I'm not talking about people who truly feel they can't breathe, but those who "don't like it because it's a bit hot"
But what gets on my goat is sneery posters on MN who criticise mask wearers.
I don't ignore social distancing when wearing a mask.
I'm not a precious snowflake.
And I'm not terrified, I've never even considered washing my groceries.

I get what the government are trying to do with this "it's a polite and courteous thing to do" - the Tories by and large don't like making direct laws to manage people's behaviour, so they're trying to make us police ourselves on masks. However, it's not going to work unless they make it compulsory.

I'm in England - I've been wearing one to do shopping, and am in tiny minority. I tend not to wear outside apart from when I am going in and out of several shops and it is easier to leave it on rather than fiddling with it and risk keep touching my face. I must admit it was very uncomfortable when it was hot weather, and the steaming up the glasses is also a nuisance

I think by autumn/winter we will have to wear them so I'm just getting used to it now. Maybe by then I'll be glad of something keeping my face warm.

@Vintagevixen

Do countries that normally wear masks even in non Covid times have lower seasonal flu/cold figures? It would be interesting to know in this whole debate.

Why? The flu virus is not like sars-cov-2. And even sars-cov-1 has different transmission patterns from sars-cov-2. There are also many different cold viruses.

The use of masks for this coronavirus is because it has been recognised that it is mainly transmitted by droplets in indoor environments. And to some extent by aerosols generated by speaking loudly and singing, mainly, but also just breathing.

And because we can't tell who is infectious easily.

I'm asthmatic but manage. My sister has just given birth, she managed whilst very heavily pregnant. My eldest autistic child manages. I will say my youngest autistic child can't manage; I do appreciate some people can't manage to wear them due to sensory or (genuine) psychological issues or severe breathing issues.

Some of the reasons given for not wearing a mask are weak at best.

For those that truly can't manage for medical reasons (pregnancy is not a medical reason to not wear one) then I will wear one to protect you.

For those that choose not to wear one because you can't be arsed, you don't like being told what to do, and are using any lame excuse then you are selfish fuckers who are dragging this out and putting vulnerable people at risk.

Just would be interesting to know, because I guess if masks are effective they will be effective whether it's flu or any SARS/Corona viruses like the common cold.

As far as my memory serves me they are also transmitted in coughs/sneezes and other aerosols?

Just would be interesting to know, nothing wrong with a nuanced debate and search for other sources of information. Far better than shouting people down and calling them selfish fuckers no?

And yes I am aware the flu virus is a different virus to Covid.