To mask or not to mask

[coffeewithmilk]

This thread might have some divided opinions

I have been wearing a face covering whenever I go into a shop or enclosed space where I cannot social distance - for example: went to IKEA this morning and put my mask on. I'm really shocked at the amount of people not wearing one.
I would have thought with everything that has happened the last few months that people would be inclined to wear a mask, but it's almost like nothing has happened... and feel like I even get some strange looks when I am wearing one.

Just for context: I'm not in the UK. Currently in ROI.

Do people think they are superior and won't catch anything so they don't bother putting one on?

AIBU with this?

@Alsohuman I am genuinely interested but maybe because I am in Portugal where it is mandatory and no one seems to have an issue with that (as far as I know!). I guess for people to understand why people aren’t willing to wear a mask it would be helpful if they could say why but I should probably go back to the beginning of the thread!

Your little bit of propaganda doesn't stand up to scrutiny, Zelda. If it were healthcare workers on a shopping jaunt spreading virus, wouldn't they be the most likely sector to wearing masks, masking transmission most unlikely? I score you no points.

@Parker231

Zelda - what evidence do you have that’s it’s healthcare workers spreading the virus? Are you wearing your mask yet when you go supermarket shopping?

How did you think it moved around the hospitals and carehomes? Community spread is tiny now, it's all still raging round those hospitals. All those pesky patients, racing up and down the corridors.

@TheClaws

Your little bit of propaganda doesn't stand up to scrutiny, Zelda. If it were healthcare workers on a shopping jaunt spreading virus, wouldn't they be the most likely sector to wearing masks, masking transmission most unlikely? I score you no points.

Sadly it only seems the op out of most healthcare workers in frontline positions who wears masks while out doing her non essential retail shopping in crowded indoor spaces. Most healthcare workers only wear them when mandated ie at work. Weird.

@TheLegendOfZelda but where is your evidence coming from? Anyone who has come into the A&E Department critically unwell, it was actually community acquired.
Any staff that are symptomatic go off work to isolate. Patients in wards are routinely screened.
This is what happens where I work.. not sure about the validity of your statements. Maybe it's different where you live

@YonBonnieBanks

Not every disability is visible.

Please stop assuming every person who isn't wearing one is simply not wanting to.

The ignorance on threads like these is appalling.

It sets disability equality back years.

And so many people say ignorant things like "there is no disability that prevents you from wearing one" or "if you can breathe, you can wear a mask".

People don't realise how lucky they are.

This.

Covid has decimated disability rights...accessible toilets closed, seats removed from shopping centres, doctors/dentists etc making people wait outside with no seating if they even manage to get an appointment. People with hearing impairments struggling with other people wearing masks rather than visors. People with impaired vision unable to be socially distanced. Closure of respite care. The list goes on.

I would have thought that

How did you think

Sheesh. Imagine to be so arrogant you think your opinion based on nothing more than what you like the sound of is worth the same as an actual professional conclusion borne from data and experienced knowledge that has an identifiable name and credentials attached to it.

Medicine and specifically this pandemic means that all opinions are not equal and whilst you’re entitled to chat shit it doesn’t mean you’re entitled for it to be respected. If you’re not prepared to back up your opinion with an accredited source at least a acknowledge that you’re almost certainly possibly wrong.

Healthcare workers might be the most exposed but the people they’re catching it from are just like you and me. It’s circular and requires us to take some responsibility of breaking the chain so everyone gets the benefits of living in a low risk society.

It’s said again today that they’re not going to be mandatory so why spread more false info

@MarioPuzo

Is this thread making anybody else really hate people?

Your mask protects other people. Other peoples masks protect you. It's literally the least you can do.

Maybe not hate people but I do roll my eyes at childish comments like this 'Boohoo to the frothers, it looks like it might not be made mandatory after all'.

'Boo hoo'

I've no idea why people don't just want to do anything possible to reduce the spread. Why wouldn't you?!

@Cornettoninja

I would have thought that

How did you think

Sheesh. Imagine to be so arrogant you think your opinion based on nothing more than what you like the sound of is worth the same as an actual professional conclusion borne from data and experienced knowledge that has an identifiable name and credentials attached to it.

Medicine and specifically this pandemic means that all opinions are not equal and whilst you’re entitled to chat shit it doesn’t mean you’re entitled for it to be respected. If you’re not prepared to back up your opinion with an accredited source at least a acknowledge that you’re almost certainly possibly wrong.

Healthcare workers might be the most exposed but the people they’re catching it from are just like you and me. It’s circular and requires us to take some responsibility of breaking the chain so everyone gets the benefits of living in a low risk society.

So much this.

@SockYarn

Again, *@YonBonnieBanks*, why should someone feel obligated to disclose or explain their difficulty to a randomer in a shop?

Because we've all seen how desperate people are to shop their neighbours and report rule breaking, even when they were just recommendations, not laws. Now that it's the law in Scotland that you must wear a mask, anyone not wearing one is going to be scrutinised. And that's not fair for a lot of reasons.

I will not be wearing a mask. I have ordered some of the clear visors which I will be forced to wear to the supermarket as I'm not prepared to pay a £60 fine.

Not sure if you are having a go, but in case you hadn't noticed from my other threads @SockYarn, I have multiple disabilities.

I certainly don't like labeling myself or disclosing my disabilities but its either that or be challenged by ignorant shop keepers and members of the public.

I hate this face mask rule and I hate Nicola Sturgeon (and I've already decided I'm not voting Tory next election either). No issue with visors.

As a PP said, Covid 19 is being used as an excuse to discriminate left right and centre. Take university and school online learning with zero captioning or BSL interpreting. Then you have organisations with lifts being closed to the mobility impaired. One way systems to navigate. Masks everywhere you go. All working from home (no captions again).

But as long as 99% of the population and/or the majority of MN are safe and well, who really gives a shit about disabled people - right?

😂😂😂
"Gove trusts common sense on masks in shop"

I had to double check your name then @Lweji - there’s a poster with a very similar name who told me the other day they weren’t convinced about the benefits of hand washing so I was very confused for a second!

What do you mean?

I've posted recently about surface transmission and then clarified that I wasn't talking about hand washing, but shopping.

And earlier today that perhaps there should have been greater insistence in wearing masks at the start than the focus on hand washing. But that from the evidence at the time, I couldn't criticise the governments, it with hindsight.

And I've been following the scientific literature, in addition to my training, and thus when I give an opinion is based on evidence, even if evidence on this tends to be preliminary, so not sure what you think you caught me on.

As a PP said, Covid 19 is being used as an excuse to discriminate left right and centre

Yes everything was done to further marganilse disabled people.

@AlternativePerspective

i have personally been on both a ventilator and oxygen and I am not keen to repeat either experience.

People who don’t wear masks are idiots, but will be among the first to complain when figures start to rise no doubt.

Not all people that are not wearing a mask are idiots.

I try and wear one if I can and always have one on me. I am asthmatic and wearing a mask really affects my breathing. I do try but periodically have to remove for a few minutes to get some fresh air.

Personally I am more concerned about the people that are not adhering to the social distance ruling. They are the people that are putting everyone at risk.

I always used to internally smirk at Asian tourists wearing them over here but I'm now a total convert. No, it's not nice wearing them for hours on end but I find you get used to them quite quickly (after ten minutes or so), so I wear one to 'do my bit'.

Clearly for some it's not feasible to do so but I'm sure that most of the population wearing them would help protect more people than only about 10% doing so.

Appealing to people to do the right thing just won't work because some people will be bloody-minded enough to not do so, just for the laughs or to be subversive.

@YonBonnieBanks I’m really very truly sorry that you feel that way but I can’t agree that covid is being used as an excuse for anything that you’re saying.

Yes our current methods are crude and clunky but it’s understandable given the time frames and lack of knowledge and understanding of this new viruses are not perfect. They were never going to be, the timescales haven’t allowed there to be much in-depth thought put into measures and time is most certainly of the essence.

Issues that arise from new measures will take that bit longer to find solutions to but I don’t believe anyone wants those who are struggling to have to cope for any longer than they have to.

I think a lot of solutions will come from communities themselves. My father lives 100 miles away from me and is disabled, vulnerable and frankly pig headed a lot of the time! But I’ve been really lucky that the community response by him has been extraordinary. If it had been the other way around there is literally nothing by me that has been coordinated to the same extent although neighbours have been amazing with each other. I think councils and ultimately the government will be looking to those independent groups for solutions that have been proven to work.

@Lweji, I meant I confused you with another poster who was very determined to disagree with me because your user names are very similar. I would have been very surprised to see them agreeing with me anywhere! No intentions of catching anyone out anywhere; I don’t usually take much notice of user names if the post doesn’t really stand out to me.

FWIW, I’ve never really got into the shopping washing subject.

Ok.

What I meant was, when I challenge why there are no captions in online learning, why lifts are shut, why shop keepers are not taking their masks off (helping someone to lip read is an exemption in govt guidance), why I am being refused entry for my assistance dog, why disabled toilets are closed.....the answer is always the same now:

"there's a global pandemic" accompanied by a shrug of shoulders.

So equality and reasonable adjustments legislation no longer matters.

My point was not about the covid 19 changes themselves, my point was that it is a convenient excuse that many people are using to justify their discrimination (until legal action is taken against them to remind them that the equality act still exists).

FFS that people don't get what I am saying.

Check out the disability law centre on Facebook for more examples.

And this nonsense about 'not being able to breathe properly while wearing them' as a get out clause is ridiculous.

Well I am certainly not looking for a get out clause. Would much rather be able to do what others are doing and wear one where it helps. But genuinely, I have tried 4 different masks now and each hampers my breathing to the extent I had an asthma attack in one of the instances, and had issues with the other 3 that didn't quite get to that stage, but were still obviously problematic.

I actually fail to see how anyone could deny they hamper breathing? The second I have one on, my face is ridiculously hot and it seems breathing has to be shallow. That might well be my asthma..but I would imagine that parts the same for some others? Maybe not, but I keep buying them hoping I find one I can tolerate, even though I don't 'have' to wear one because of my asthma, would still rather not advertise to the world I have a condition, nor risk ending up shamed on facebook or screamed at in the street thanks.

Masks are annoying and steam up your specs, they make breathing a bit more effort. But this is a worldwide pandemic - I can put up with an inconvenience it it protects others.

It’s just good manners.

For those who said there’s no evidence : that’s because people were asking the wrong question. “Will a homemade mask stop me getting C19?” No.

“Will a homemade mask prevent the spread of the disease?” Yes.

It’s altruism to wear one when indoors.

@FrogOfFrogHall - you need a mask that fits correctly, then you won't have to touch it.

"They are to help the vulnerable, the elderly"

Bear in mind that some of the vulnerable cannot wear masks before anyone starts questioning people they meet who are not wearing one. Some people have the double whammy of being clinically vulnerable and now coming out of shielding to people having a go at them and saying they are selfish.