To mask or not to mask

[coffeewithmilk]

This thread might have some divided opinions

I have been wearing a face covering whenever I go into a shop or enclosed space where I cannot social distance - for example: went to IKEA this morning and put my mask on. I'm really shocked at the amount of people not wearing one.
I would have thought with everything that has happened the last few months that people would be inclined to wear a mask, but it's almost like nothing has happened... and feel like I even get some strange looks when I am wearing one.

Just for context: I'm not in the UK. Currently in ROI.

Do people think they are superior and won't catch anything so they don't bother putting one on?

AIBU with this?

I think they will shortly become compulsory inside shops. Can’t see why people wouldn’t want to try and protect others.

I seem to have reverted back to my teenage levels of self consciousness when it comes to mask wearing and I find it difficult to keep eye contact/look up if I’m wearing one.

That said, I’m feeling more and more like I should wear one while shopping, as there are ever increasing numbers of people on shops and much less social distancing. I also have to take DS with me shopping now, which was the final straw in making me wear the mask. I want to protect those around me and see it as a form of mitigation for bringing a small germy child in.

I wear one everywhere, inside and out. Quite obviously the only parent on the school run wearing one at our school.
Sometimes I’m a bit self conscious but it feels a bit safer to me.

I wish the government would agree a position on it and stick to it.

Nobody’s wearing them here. I will if they become compulsory but not until then. My exception will be to get my hair cut on Monday. This feels like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53371441

I wear mine inside the shops.
I have sympathy for those who can't wear them (disability or claustrophobia) and wouldn't judge those not wearing them. They do seem to be getting more common.

@SellFridges

1) Masks prevent others, not the wearer and anyone with any CV related symptoms is being asked to isolate. People often cite Japan as a place where people wear masks to protect others. This is when they have symptoms of a cold, not all the time. At the moment nobody should be going to a crowded space when they are unwell.

2. Social distancing is still a thing. Everyone I know is practising it in some form.

3. Hand and tissue hygiene is way more effective than mask wearing, particularly bad mask wearing.

Therefore, I don’t really see the point in mask wearing in places where you are likely to be in close contact with people for less than 15 minutes. More than that and yep, fine.

A neat summary. It's 4 months since I've been within 2m of anyone not from my household for more than about 5 seconds. Mask or not, my chance of even having the virus to pass on is exceptionally low.

I recently did a long haul flight where it was compulsory and was dreading it. Was not as bad as I’d feared and I feel more confident wearing them now.

I can't wear a mask for two reasons - I'm asthmatic and any face coverings prevent me breathing properly and also during an attack by my ex fiancé years ago he tried to kill me by smothering and trying to strangle me.

Nit being able to wear a mask influenced my career choices so instead of becoming a surgeon I took the public health route, then decided that even that meant that I would occasionally need PPE - so I took on non clinical and policy/political roles instead.

If it is mandatory in shops then I'll have to stay at home or find an exemption card to carry. I cannot, will not, wear a mask.

There are a lot of people out there like me with justifiable reasons for our actions.

I would wear a mask, I wouldn’t judge anyone for not wearing one though, some people are exempt for medical reasons.

This feels like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

I see this again and again and it is a poor argument. There are more horses in the stable that can be stopped now by bolting the door.

Social distancing is reducing, interactions indoors are increasing it makes complete sense to wear now. Probably should have been earlier, but that doesn't take away from wearing now.

I’m extremely concerned the government are considering FORCING people to wear masks. To me that is a step too far especially if they are going to issue fines. Nobody should be forced to wear anything they are not comfortable with for whatever reason.

If they want to encourage mask wearing that’s fine but making it mandatory, no.

I’ve been wearing one in shops and I’m in Scotland so thankfully they are now compulsory in shops. Although of course you will get people taking the piss with the ‘can’t wear a mask’ excuses.

@byvirtue

I’m extremely concerned the government are considering FORCING people to wear masks. To me that is a step too far especially if they are going to issue fines. Nobody should be forced to wear anything they are not comfortable with for whatever reason.

If they want to encourage mask wearing that’s fine but making it mandatory, no.

They didn't force people to stick to lockdown, so it's unlikely they'll force people to wear this. Private businesses can of course refuse to let you in without one, but that's different.

Nobody should be forced to wear anything they are not comfortable with for whatever reason.

Even if that reason is to save lives?

I am undecided on this one. I wore a face covering today in the supermarket. It created a damp warm environment around my face which we know are good conditions for the virus to thrive. It kept falling down from my nose so I had to keep touching it to pull it up. And then Im touching other things (such as the trolley) that other people will touch after me.
I had put sanitiser on in the car and before entering the supermarket and without a mask I would definitely not touch my face at all whilst in there. However with the mask I was touching the mask / my face more than normal even though I was making a conscious effort not to. Also if I need to sneeze or cough (unusual for me) I would normally do it into my arm. I don't know whether there is any evidence yet about how well masks protect vs not masked but ensuring you cover your face when sneezing or coughing?
I'm happy to wear one if it's going to help but I just don't know what's best at the moment, I assume the evidence isn't clear or they would be mandatory.

Face masks unmasked - how about multipurpose Covid safety face masks?

Examples include:

www.designboom.com/design/donut-robits-c-mask-internet-connected-07-07-2020

www.forbes.com/sites/simonchandler/2020/06/26/coronavirus-japanese-firm-unveils-smart-face-mask-that-connects-to-phones/#438fab873f3a

beebom.com/leaf-self-sterilizing-smart-n99-mask/

www.invisismart.com/mask/

One reason why masks will be made "voluntarily/instructed/compulsory" outside of Scottish and English homes despite most Brits thinking that this won't happen to them (just the other 50k plus fatalities):

www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/

And in the UK (one of a very select few nations globally) where there is anti PPE culture possibly because we have by default "free" personal health insurance otherwise known as free at point of use NHS subject to limited and over stretched resources. Sure unlike USA here in the UK you don't need medical insurance before an ambulance arrives nor pay the average US$ 500-1000 "surprise" bill shock for the privilege!:

Masks or unmasked or as I see daily in UK public mask fraud or fake mask psychological diplomacy! By this I refer to people putting a “on” a face cloth mask covering their chin which is essentially the same as not bothering as perhaps only doing so when they are jammed into a packed shared public transportation carriage with no or little fresh air ventilation. The purpose of the masks and why everyone outside of UK and the US and Brazilian presidents wear one is obvious is it not?

Simple reality check - Covid is still a learning curve for all, there is and possibly will never be a curve, it is invisible and also asymtomatic and evidently highly contagious and has so far killed a "few" people! The Trumpanzee may prefer bleach or sunlight or any random drug which he has a vested financial interest but surely we Brits have a different view in Covid mutual safety? Wear a mask when in doubt or take a chance and hit the beach or pub and see what happens and bring on more potential cycles of extended lockdown misery and waves of community infections.

Really good , simple explanation about why we should wear masks

www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

An extract here: for those who don't click on links

^A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.

Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.

Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford.

In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.^

I'm in Scotland, it's compulsory here. Went into a local shop, the shop keeper works alone, he wasn't wearing one. Next door, a tailor, the seamstress wasn't wearing one and a customer waiting inside at the counter wasn't wearing one either.
I wear one as I'm not medically exempt, nor am I a total fud.

@byvirtue

I’m extremely concerned the government are considering FORCING people to wear masks. To me that is a step too far especially if they are going to issue fines. Nobody should be forced to wear anything they are not comfortable with for whatever reason.

If they want to encourage mask wearing that’s fine but making it mandatory, no.

Do you feel the same about seatbelts and crash helmets?

I'm British but living in Thailand and it's so interesting to watch the different reactions to this. Here, mask-wearing is considered a courtesy if you are even slightly under the weather and it's normal for a number if passengers on a train or one or two kids in a class to be wearing a mask at any given time. Really bad pollution means that during certain periods of the year, many more people wear masks (including children).

It became complusory in Thailand to wear masks some time ago and it remains complusory in shops, malls, on public transport (including taxis). This is relaxing slightly and I often wear mine under my chin until I am close to other people as it is super hot and gross and I don't enjoy wearing it, but I totally understand the requirement to do so. I wore one even when heavily pregnant in VERY hot, humid weather so while I know there are multiple reasons why people might be unable to wear a mask (as several posters here have detailed) I think for many more people it is a case of preferring not to.

To those disputing the science of it... I get it, there are mixed reports on them, but they certainly don't harm you (medical reasons excepted) so wouldn't you rather everyone wore them just in case they ARE a factor in reducing transmission? Worth a try, no?!

It is crazy for those of us in Asia to watch the numbers of cases and deaths in the UK and yet also see how unwilling many people are to wear a mask and to see lockdown being lifted. We've had ZERO locally-transmitted cases in 6+ weeks, the only cases recorded are in people entering the country from abroad and they are in state quarantine so will not spread the virus. The UK seems horrifying from over here!

(I'm aware figures may not be accurate in either place and I was especially sceptical of Thai data early on, but we certainly don't have overburdened hospitals or bodies in the streets, so the figures do not appear to be wildly off).

I don't understand the reluctance among anyone who doesn't have a genuine reason not to wear one. Maybe I've been culturally acclimatised to Asia more than I thought! There is certainly a sense of people here being far more biddable and generally following whatever is put in place even if they disagree, whereas in the UK (in many western countries?) there is more of a 'the government can't make me!' sort of sentiment. Or so it seems from the media and some posts here confirm that view. I wonder if I would feel differently if I were in the UK right now.

Anyway I'm rambling but I do find it interesting how differently people react to the prospect of masks...

I wear one in shops (including shopping areas) and on stations and public transport. After a visit by rail to west Cumbria last week from London, I now have symptoms and am waiting on a test.

I was a bit shocked that on local rail a majority of people just don’t bother. Presumably not all had conditions that stop them doing so. Hopefully if I do have it, or even if I just have a another infection, I have stopped vulnerable people being infected.

The effectiveness of makes relies on a certain % wearing them, if everyone who could did, it would still be so much more effective. However aside from the genuine reasons why someone would struggle, if everyone else wore them it would be so much better. But some are so enlightened and NoT a ShEeP that they don't bother, and usually act superior about it. Imagine having such priveledge that you feel wearing a piece of fabric to help keep others safe is such a savage infringment of your own free will

I think people are missing the bigger picture with masks. One person wearing one is meaningless really. Even several isn't really significant. But if everyone wears one then overall transmission will be reduced. So whilst there will be the exceptions such as people with severe learning disabilities perhaps, most adults should be able to wear one for the period of time they are inside. Outside once you've left the shop and going to your car or whatever, just take it off. Or pull it down and push it back up again when you go back inside. You can pull it down if you need a little break too. Once it's on, it's not stuck to you. But you need to wear one and get used to it to start to feel comfortable knowing how to wear it...i.e., just swallow your pride/apprehension or whatever and do it. It will get easier. You'll wonder why you were so defensive about it.

If everyone (near as possible) wears one all the time (as near as possible) whilst inside, then overall transmission will be reduced.

I’m in the US and it’s mandatory in our city because we’re in stage 4 close to 5. We’re in one of the major covid hotspot states. The only place I’ve been lately is the supermarket and to pick up takeout food. I wear a mask because it’s recommended for everyone’s safety and to try to get our numbers to level off somewhat. Our city has just started implementing $250 fines for anyone not masking in public without a medical exemption.