To ask what you think about cultural appropriation?

[malificent7]

For example...i love african wax print but would it be offensive if i wore it as a white, non African lady? I wouldn't go full on but just a skirt in the print?
I also like Buddhas and have several in my house. I have a keen interest in the religion but i am not buddhist.
So are these examples of cultural appropriation, if not, what is? why is it deemed so offensive?

I have only just realised that one idea that particularly grates on me is the idea of "credit for creativity" as something we ought to be bestowing.

Then it finally clicked that to the Instagram generation this is theoretically hugely important. I just go around wearing stuff and hoping it looks nice. I think creating a social burden about something as specific as a look or style that catches on is counterintuitive.

America has ruined many Italian dishes
I actually really like the way some of my English friends serve lasagne/pizza/creamy pasta dishes...with a salad on the side. We just pizza and lemony salad for lunch, such a nice contrast.

My mum is agog when I do it with pasta/lasagna though.

America has ruined many Italian dishes

It’s also created many great ones. A proper New York pepperoni pizza is heaven.

To me it depends. If the garment has cultural value in the country it originated, and has a meaning beyond just being worn as it looks nice then it is inappropriate for someone else to wear it just because it looks fashionable or whatever. If the clothing though just happens to be worn in that country because it's fashionable, then I don't see the issue. For some hairstyles etc, the reason it's important is because black women especially are told certain styles aren't smart enough for school or work, are told that it makes them look a certain way; whereas white women often don't get the same comments when wearing the same style. Therefore it's not so much that it's copying or whatever, but that for one group it's mocked and for the other it's celebrated and seen as fine- that's not right. Also some do have deeper cultural meaning. I think it can go way too far, but I do think that an awareness is appropriate.

@GoshHashana

The women who took me shopping for it said that they wore jeans and European dresses most of the time, so why did it matter?

Possibly because India didn't colonise England for many generations? The situation isn't equally weighted on both sides, so this argument doesn't really work.

But India traded cloth with Europe long before it was colonised ?

I really don’t have an opinion one way or another.

Wearing clothing from another culture is not appropriation

People do not own the right to ‘their clothing’

It’s sad people get told they can’t do their hair a certain way for fear of being told they are doing something wrong. White Family mener has mixed race daugher and sometimes has her hair in braids as little
girl likes her mummy to have the same hair. Someone told her this is ‘cultural appropriation’ and she was disgusting. What has come of this world?

Maybe do some research @Davincitoad?

An example of cultural appropriation for those asking would be Dior stealing designs from the Bihor people, and making thousands of pounds from each item without any acknowledgement or credit.

I do find it interesting, some are easy to identify and others debatable. Other examples are clearly racist but then as this is cultural then race is not always a factor especially with religion. In America you have ADOS where African Americans who have links to slavery feel that black immigrants who benefit from their culture are guilty of cultural appropriation, the lived experience rather than the race.

I really don't like it when people wear kilts with no reference to the culture and the history of the Highland people. There was a time when we weren't allowed to wear plaids or speak our own language without persecution so reclaiming tartan as our own (even in the Disneyish way Walter Scott did) is a crucial part of our self esteem as a culture. Wearing it properly and with respect is one thing but just slinging on any old length, in any tartan that appeals to you with no idea of what it means makes me feel very uncomfortable and I imagine that is what other folk feel about their own culture.

How many wear clothes with a tartan? Like many things concerned with ethnicity, or whatever you want to call it, it's yet another way to beat anyone who is not 'of colour' or at least not of the correct, acceptable colour. Personally I couldn't give a damn about 'cultural appropriation' it's like buses, another fad will be around if you wait long enough.

@IDontLikeZombies

I really don't like it when people wear kilts with no reference to the culture and the history of the Highland people. There was a time when we weren't allowed to wear plaids or speak our own language without persecution so reclaiming tartan as our own (even in the Disneyish way Walter Scott did) is a crucial part of our self esteem as a culture. Wearing it properly and with respect is one thing but just slinging on any old length, in any tartan that appeals to you with no idea of what it means makes me feel very uncomfortable and I imagine that is what other folk feel about their own culture.

I and many other Indians feel this way about sarees / punjabi suits too. Kim Kardashian’s incorrectly draped lycra ‘saree’ offended me - it looked so trashy and the reason she wasn’t photographed with other female wedding guests while wearing it would have been because the others would have looked a million times better. By contrast Beyonce and Nicole Scherzinger tend to wear them really respectfully.

The whole idea that it's ok for other cultures to wear jeans but not for us to wear clothing from other cultures is itself racist in my opinion because it presents white, western culture as the standard, the default, and every other culture as the "other".

An example of cultural appropriation for those asking would be Dior stealing designs from the Bihor people, and making thousands of pounds from each item without any acknowledgement or credit

But the issue there is the rules of capitalism. Dior ‘steal’ designs from all over the place, make money out of it and don’t acknowledge/credit. We don’t copyright designs, leaving them free to do this. It’s not in anyway unique to that culture.

I really don't like it when people wear kilts with no reference to the culture and the history of the Highland people

Given how much tartan stuff is flogged to tourists in Scotland is difficult to maintain the moral high ground here though.

I think carelessly wearing items of religious or deep cultural significance (like a bindi, or a cross worn as jewellery by a non-Christian) can be gauche, though I wouldn't quite describe it as cultural appropriation.

I think @TeaStory has given a good example of what cultural appropriation really is.

They do say that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...

@LaurieMarlow

An example of cultural appropriation for those asking would be Dior stealing designs from the Bihor people, and making thousands of pounds from each item without any acknowledgement or credit

But the issue there is the rules of capitalism. Dior ‘steal’ designs from all over the place, make money out of it and don’t acknowledge/credit. We don’t copyright designs, leaving them free to do this. It’s not in anyway unique to that culture.

The point here was that Dior used the designs and techniques but not in Bihar. speciality garment skills in India are dying out because of low pay and craftspeople being able to make more money in low skill foreign garment factories - so for Dior to do this is unethical to the extreme.

I love African prints as well - but now feel ideally if I'm going to buy them, should buy from an African designer-maker, not a high street store for example.

I can see the point of not culturally appopriating things for fancy dress, that is disrespectful and can and should stop. And the argument 'Oh well then black people shouldn't have straight hair and wear European clothes' argument is also a nonsense and missing the point.

But I do feel for an argument that I heard from a black person that some of the discourse about cultural appropriation doesn't actually do anything to help people of colour. If it's true that we applaud dreadlocks on white people but not on black people (as it happens, I think society in generally looks down on everyone with them regardless of colour), surely what we need to do is stop penalising black people for having natural hair or styles like braids or dreads, and stop ruling against them in schools and workplaces - not castigate white people for having them.

@CasuallyFeminine

The whole idea that it's ok for other cultures to wear jeans but not for us to wear clothing from other cultures is itself racist in my opinion because it presents white, western culture as the standard, the default, and every other culture as the "other".

Considering denim’s links not just to the (cotton) slave trade but also (Indigo) Asian colonialism, this is the wrong example to give. Every white person who wore blue denim was probably the cause of at least half a dozen black and Indian / Asian murders. If non-white people are wearing denim now they have every right to as they were always instrumental in it’s production - in fact considering denim is now made and manufactured in Africa and Asia now people have colour have more right to wear it than white people.

The point here was that Dior used the designs and techniques but not in Bihar. speciality garment skills in India are dying out because of low pay and craftspeople being able to make more money in low skill foreign garment factories - so for Dior to do this is unethical to the extreme.

That was not the point considering it's about Romanian clothing...

Some of these responses are really interesting for me.
Grumpy Absolutely, taking the time to find out how to wear it as it should be worn shows respect to the culture.

Keeprocking, that's exactly it. Treating something with deep significance for a culture as a fad that changes like the weather is pretty disrespectful and that's what cultural appropriation is all about.

Laurie I concede that there is a huge amount of tat sold with tartan on it. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that.

Fashion is always inspired by culture. In my opinion, unless it is intended to offend then it is actually a compliment.
I can see that items of particular religious significance are probably the exception to this but again, the intent is what is key.

They do say that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...

Well, adults say that as a way of shutting down the whole 'Muuuu-uuum, she keeps copying me' nuisance. What we're discussing here really is a lot more complex and nuanced than that, though. For example, a black person who was sent home from school for wearing their hair naturally, and singled out at work for 'not looking professional', and had to deal with people trying to stroke their hair as though they're a pet... that person might not take well to a privileged white trustafarian telling them that it's meant to be flattering.