To ask what you think about cultural appropriation?

[malificent7]

For example...i love african wax print but would it be offensive if i wore it as a white, non African lady? I wouldn't go full on but just a skirt in the print?
I also like Buddhas and have several in my house. I have a keen interest in the religion but i am not buddhist.
So are these examples of cultural appropriation, if not, what is? why is it deemed so offensive?

In my eyes if you're using another culture to profit off of then that's probably cultural appropriation, ie topshop selling batik or African wax prints

But this is the issue - you think it is African, but it didn't originate there. No one culture "owns" a style of fashion or a type of food. Many/most types of dress or food have been exchanged for 1000's of years.

America has ruined many Italian dishes, but they were brought to America by Italian immigrants and have changed over time, deep dish pizza anyone - bleugh.

I think the notion of cultural appropriation is woolly at best. Just use common sense. If you are doing something to make fun of another culture then that’s not right. But if you like something and appreciate it, then it’s ok.

At a time when we need to be doing more to integrate different cultures, the whole idea of appropriation puts a wedge in bringing people together. Whether it’s making curry’s, dressing like Moana or wearing braids, as long as it’s coming from a good place then it’s fine.

I think this is a case where the far left think they are doing a good thing but in fact it has a negative affect on society.

Personally speaking, I come from a different culture (South Asian) and everyone in my community is over the moon when UK folks integrate by dressing up, dance the way we dance, learn our language, cook our food etc.

Some people may be offended but people like that often are looking out for things to be offended by.

If I was making use of an item of clothing or object, etc that is clearly sacred and used in specific ways with deeper meanings (or if I was using it 'wrongly') and found out, I'd stop. Part of appreciating a culture is respecting that culture so I wouldn't use/wear anything I shouldn't.

African wax print fabric is manufactured in the Netherlands so I don’t see why there would be a problem with a white woman wearing it? At the end of the day it’s just a nice patterned fabric, it’s irrelevant where it’s from.

Surely the key bit is "appropriation" - taking something another culture developed and claiming it as yours, as something your (dominant) culture now owns and controls?

Surely the key bit is "appropriation" - taking something another culture developed and claiming it as yours
If you look at it that way, then Africa has appropriated the wax print fabrics that are designed and manufactured in the Netherlands then sold into the African market.

I don't agree that Topshop and such selling certain prints is bad. I mean can you imagine how would it look if shops could sell only local prints and styles? The proper original local ones?🤷🏻

We live in multicultural world. All cultures influenced each other in fashion, food, languages, gardening and so on and so on.

Where I'm from, we actually call some of them Dutch Prints or Hollandaise (The ones made there, not all of them are), not African prints. There are different names for the different prints we use for traditional outfits.

And even if the African wax prints were all born and raised in Africa, it still wouldn't matter

If you do it from a place of respect and genuine interest then I think it might be fine. If you do it without researching or being sensitive to the culture it comes from then that's not OK in my view.

For eg. I love Japanese culture, all aspects of it, including the traditional clothes. I'm white English. I've worn kimono to matsuri summer festival in Trafalgar Square. But it was a real japanese kimono and authentic obi, tabi, zori etc all worn in a traditional manner, not a sexy dressing gown in brocade.
I have Japanese friends and my aunt is Japanese. They had no problem with this.

Another eg. My dh is chinese so I wear Qi Pao occasionally. My dh's family actually tell me off for not wearing qipao or tang jacket at new year.

What is not OK in my opinion is when it shows ignorance, is fetishizing or disrespecting the cultural origin.

claiming it as yours

What does that even mean though?

How can we have ‘ownership’ over plaits, prints, ingredients, combinations of flavours, dress types?

It means you can't claim to have invented it when you didn't. That has nothing to do with enjoying it. Imo, you owe no one explanation for enjoying it until you start to claim it and make money off it.

It means you can't claim to have invented it when you didn't

But who’s doing that?

And ‘invention’ of most cultural practices is murky at best.

@OlaEliza

I think cultural appropriation is mostly a load of bollocks. No-one tells black women they can't straighten their hair and dye it blonde

You do know 'black' women also have straight hair. 'Black' people are diverse and so is their hair.

Well according to wiki oldest signs of plaits were actually found in what is now Austria and France...
If you look at ancient history, plaits were widely used all over the world.

I don't see a reason why someone should feel bad about having hair done into plaits no matter what their skin colour is

I personally think it's fine to adopt and appreciate other cultures but it's offensive when cultural identity is stolen.
For example, when the Kardashians were praised for the 'boxer braids' fashion wave. Black women have been degraded for years over how they have worn their hair then here came the Kardashians being praised for styles black women had worn for years.

Black women have been degraded for years over how they have worn their hair

But that’s the problem. Pure racism.

Nothing to do with what people are saying about Kardashians.

Cultural appropriation isn't nearly as simple as pretending you invented things. It's also about fetishising other cultures as "exotic" or using elements of that culture in ways which would be offensive to someone from that culture.

An example is the random Chinese or Japanese-looking tattoos and characters which were popular in the 90s. It's not done out of any deep identification with any particular culture and in fact many were just nonsense symbols but they were used to make the wearer appear cool and sometimes spiritual in some way.

Another is the use of chopsticks for decoration, or as hair accessories. This is deeply offensive to those for whom chopsticks have strict uses and rituals associated with them and it can't be overlooked just for some kind of fancy dress.

@LaurieMarlow

It means you can't claim to have invented it when you didn't

But who’s doing that?

And ‘invention’ of most cultural practices is murky at best.

I don't know. I'm speaking generally about why it can be an issue for some people.

I agree that you can't usually tell who invented what as many traditions have been inspired and even "appropriated".

Someone mentioned Christians and Christmas. I'm not religious but I grew up in a religious home. Christmas is seen as a christian celebration and it's only Christ-themed. However what many don't know is that it started as a pagan tradition.

Sunday is similar, it was a day of sun worship long before christianity came into the picture and it now happens to be the day you attend church where I'm from.

Some people claim it's the day of the 'son' (of God) while a few others who practice paganism say it's the day of the 'sun' (of God the creator).

My African in laws have filled my home with belongings from their culture. They told me my house had no energy so bring little decorative items each time they visit. To them they aren't decorative, but that's how I see them. When people visit that don't know them they probably thing I'm a right cultural appropriator!

They also gave me fertility stones to keep under my pillow as a way of overriding the implant..

Is there a word for that?! Forced cultural appropriation? The items make me smile so I guess they do bring good energy!

In a perfect world we would all be able to embrace and indulge in all cultures but the past does make that idea seem impossible. My DCs are an amazing blend of British and African culture but look white British, I do worry that they will face a lot of judgement when their grandmother braids their European hair and other things like that. My in laws love passing on their culture and teaches DCs friends all sorts of things that fascinate them (dances in particular). I hope this doesn't lead those children to be called out of they were to find a connection with a part of her culture.

I agree that you can't usually tell who invented what as many traditions have been inspired and even "appropriated".

The bottom line is that the vast majority of practices we associate with particular cultures were ‘appropriated’ from somewhere else, most of which is lost in the mists of time.

Which is the fatal flaw in most of these arguments.

Is there a word for that?!

Superstition

@LaurieMarlow

I agree that you can't usually tell who invented what as many traditions have been inspired and even "appropriated".

The bottom line is that the vast majority of practices we associate with particular cultures were ‘appropriated’ from somewhere else, most of which is lost in the mists of time.

Which is the fatal flaw in most of these arguments.

We seem to be on the same page, don't you think? You've repeated what I said in different ways in a few of your posts while @ ing or quoting me as though you're disagreeing. So we're saying the same/similar things, I think.

Isn't the key issue that makes appropriation negative is when one person would get discriminated against for wearing or doing something, but a more privileged person can just take it and be applauded for it.
So the girl teased for wearing a bindi at school is rightly irritated by festival goers using one for a cool weekend fashion, but British people watching Howl's Moving Castle isn't a problem because it isn't treated as something negative when Japanese people watch it either.

So we're saying the same/similar things, I think.

Yes I think so

@DonutDolittle Don't mind me. I think if you're happy with it and they're happy too, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.