To ask what you think about cultural appropriation?

[malificent7]

For example...i love african wax print but would it be offensive if i wore it as a white, non African lady? I wouldn't go full on but just a skirt in the print?
I also like Buddhas and have several in my house. I have a keen interest in the religion but i am not buddhist.
So are these examples of cultural appropriation, if not, what is? why is it deemed so offensive?

If I see someone wearing what looks like African print or if someone has an "African painting/sculpture", I'd think it's cool (because we're all participating in life and that includes borrowing cultural stuff from each other) and would love to hear the story behind it if there is. Doesn't matter if there isn't, I'd still make me smile and I'd even compliment them if it looks nice.

In my eyes if you're using another culture to profit off of then that's probably cultural appropriation, ie topshop selling batik or African wax prints, or white women who "blackfish" for influence

I don’t see anything wrong with that at all JesusInTheCabbageVan

It’s a nice picture. By having it in your home you’re not claiming to be part of the culture, saying anything derogatory about the culture.

I think it’s a bit like an artistic copyright myself, except where it is something disrespectful, like using the name of a country’s national costume as a brand name for your underwear range.

So, I feel like it’s fine to appreciate an artwork or wear a fabric you have paid a fair price for, but not fine to make money from the artwork or fabric as if you have been the creative force behind it, or by buying it cheaply from the person who created it and selling it at a big mark up. It

I got braids 30 years ago on a visit to the Bahamas long before any of this was discussed and I paid someone to put them in for me. I kept them for a few days. Very practical in hot weather when swimming in the sea and stuff.
I do sometimes wonder now how the women who were offering braids to tourists in the Bahamas feel about having fewer customers for braids due to fears of being accused of cultural appropriation. However, it’s up to the people whose culture and art it is, to decide how it gets displayed.

I have a Japanese cotton yukata and used to wear it sometimes about ten years ago to summer festivals in Japan (it’s traditional wear on those occasions). I got nothing but compliments and even appreciation for wearing it.
It was also a case of it being appropriate for the occasion.
I wouldn’t wear it to lunch in the UK.

Honestly, I think it's often a shutting down phrase stopping a more useful examination of what's going on. So it's often describing something exploitative, or fetishising, hurtful, mocking or othering and it'd be more useful to describe it as that.
I'm aware that I probably haven't understood it though.

Anyone who takes offence at someone being interested in another culture, admiring its fashion, enjoying and cooking its food, etc., is in my opinion being ridiculous.

Why should I care if such a person finds offence simply because they're constantly seeking it?

LaurieMarlow good

Rightly or wrongly though, I would definitely feel differently about it if I learned that it had been produced by affluent white westerners. That would push it firmly into the wrong side of the divide, for reasons I can't articulate right now because I should probably go and inflict some parenting on my DC

I think that the whole notion of CA is appalling, and inconsistent.

We are a melting pot of nations and influences here in the UK. If you take it to its logical conclusion no one can cook Indian food unless you're Indian, and don't get me started ion haircuts. I've yet to meet in real life anyone non-white who gets worked up about this stuff. It's something posh middle class kids get worked up about but few others it seems.

I believe it’s to do with how it is often perceived on the person wearing it/doing it, rather than the fact you are wearing something from another culture.

Black woman in cornrows - unprofessional.
Kardashians - cool, on trend and fashionable

Black woman with long, pointed nails - ghetto
White woman - just following the latest trend

Black woman with big lips - not generally socially accepted as pretty
White woman - pays for filler and uses this new attribute to propel and alter the White standard of
beauty (same as naturally large bottoms and the trend for implants)

Black woman singing a big gospel type song on xfactor - you’re like a young Etta Jones, a young Whitney Houston
White woman - wow, you have a fantastic voice (and it is not compared to anyone else who is deemed as an acceptable staple within her ethnic group)

Etc

Etta James *

Damn autocorrect!

ladypete

Everything you’ve just described there is racism. It’s not about CA per se.

So it's often describing something exploitative, or fetishising, hurtful, mocking or othering and it'd be more useful to describe it as that

I totally agree with this. We’d do a lot better to put our energies into understanding those underlying things, rather than throw round a very ill defined term that gets people’s knickers in a twist over eating sushi or whatever.

I’m all for Cultural Celebration

No one here worries about ordering a California or Nixon roll at the kaitenzushi it’s just part of moving with the times

Cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation are two different things. The former is not OK, the later is.

I went somewhere some years ago (can't be more specific) and one of the women I was having a chat with asked if I could plait her hair the way I did mine. It was a meandering conversation that just happened to go in that direction and I don't think she expected me to agree. Sure, I said and she proceeded to ask if I could do it right then. I was happy to and I started doing her hair. In the process another lady joined us and begged me to do the same. Of course I agreed and by the time I was doing hers, 2 or 3 other ladies had joined and asked and then more joined to see what all the excitement was about and I ended up plaiting 7 ladies' hair that afternoon. Just casual 3 to 4 cornrows. My fingers were numb but their happiness was palpable and that was more than enough for me.

These ladies came from different backgrounds including Eastern Europe, Asia, Middle east, etc.

Personally it wasn't a big deal as braids and plaits have been a major part of my life as well as hair straightening, etc but to them, it was something new (to some), fun, a beautiful experience, etc.

I came back the next day and the next and most of them were still wearing the braids. By the end of the week, the last woman standing was the first one who wanted the braids. Ha. Some of the braids were unravelling but she held onto it. One of the other ladies told me hers had unravelled so she took them down. I offered to make a fresh one for them.

I had no problems with others - they had enjoyed what they wanted for as long as they wanted to enjoy it. It's their choice to keep it or not just like it's their choice to ask me in the first place to plait their hair.

So for me this was just people enjoying what they saw and liked. Claiming "It's my culture, no you can't have it" didn't even cross my mind.

The former is not OK

No ones ever defined with any clarity what it is though.

And we’ve an article quoted upthread about cultural appropriation that tells us ‘interest in other cultures isn’t necessarily a bad thing’ so I suggest that discussion of it is muddying the waters and undermining cultural appreciation.

I take it quite seriously, I don't celebrate Christmas for eg as I am entirely non religious, I don't buy touristy things that are symbols of faith or have meaning to a certain culture. People take the piss quite openly, so I guess I go further than some but I guess that just proves their are arseholes with zero respect for others. They just reinforce my aim to avoid treading on toes.

*there are, sorry

I think part of the problem is usually when people culturally-appropriate (?), what they're appropriating is seen as right/good/beautiful but not seen that way if it's the person with the culture wearing/using it.

But this is more to do with the people observing and deciding what's good or not, not necessaily the person wearing/using it unless it's their intention too.

I love wax print due to the colours, prints and the fact that i am so bored of the sea of grey, black and denim in GB. I would not go head to toe with braids.

I read an article once - can't remember where, sorry - and that explained that 'cultural appropriation' can cause offence or upset when the article or item (or whatever) has a specific deep cultural or religious significance to people of that culture or faith. So when it is taken entirely out of context and used as decoration, or in some other inappropriate or superficial way by others, that is where the problem lies.

I don't celebrate Christmas for eg as I am entirely non religious ... I guess that just proves their are arseholes with zero respect for others

I’m not religious either. But Christmas is very important to me, culturally. I don’t think that makes me an ‘arsehole with no respect for others’.

The religious don’t own Christmas. In fact, it’s a good an example of ‘cultural appropriation’ as any. I.e. they adapted the pagan celebration of Yule to their own ends.

But that is how culture works. This concept of ‘ownership’ I find bizarre and not at all reflective of reality.

what they're appropriating is seen as right/good/beautiful but not seen that way if it's the person with the culture wearing/using it.

The problem there is the second part of that sentence, not the first.

Even if someone liked both and rocked both braids/plaits and wax prints, I still wouldn't think it's offensive. Infact, I'd want to get to know that person and be friends (hopefully we'd have more in common for that to work though. Ha).

Seeing people appreciating different cultures and wanting to be part of it in one way or another clearly shows an open mind at least.

Unless this is done in a mocking way, it's fine imo.