To ask what you think about cultural appropriation?

[malificent7]

For example...i love african wax print but would it be offensive if i wore it as a white, non African lady? I wouldn't go full on but just a skirt in the print?
I also like Buddhas and have several in my house. I have a keen interest in the religion but i am not buddhist.
So are these examples of cultural appropriation, if not, what is? why is it deemed so offensive?

I'm curious about this myself OP, as I am African, as are three generations of my family. I was born there and grew up there.

I am also white so I don't 'look' identifiably African at first glance. So African prints, artefacts etc are a part of my culture and heritage, but because I'm white I could potentially get accused of cultural appropriation. I wouldn't want to offend anyone but I also want to celebrate all the parts of my heritage, not just the ones that 'match' my skin colour.

I think do whatever you like if you're not being rude

I agree. One of the great benefits of immigrants coming to your country is the opportunity to adopt elements of their cultures into your own. Part of that is some gentle humour about the differences. It would be very sad if we got so precious about those differences that this didn't happen.

people should listen to what they're saying and take it on board.

Of course. There will probably be lots of other voices saying something different that they can also listen to.

And so long as they aren’t doing anything racist or disrespectful, then there isn’t a problem.

I think I phrased "giving credit to the originators" wrong - I don't mean that you need to ring up someone in India if you want to wear a sari, I'm just trying to say that there needs to be an understanding of where it came from.

I.e. fulani braids are not "Bo Derek braids", the bindi is a Hindu/Jain symbol worn by married women, not young girls at festivals, etc. If you're going to have Buddhist symbols in your house then get them from a Buddhist person or source and research what they mean, don't buy a H&M replica just because it looks 'cool'.

I'm probably still not explaining it right but I just think the problem with 'appropriation' is when it's done without respect.

But then on the flip side black women wearing braids or locs get told it's unprofessional This is the issue though.

I agree, this is a major part of the problem. Also any kind of appropriation that involves 'improving' the original, as when certain celebrity chefs do their own take on well loved traditional dishes from other cultures.

A genuine interest in other cultures is not necessarily wrong

I find the use of the word ‘necessarily’ here staggering. Of course a genuine interest in other cultures isn’t wrong.

It is entirely indicative of the mental gymnastics the left have got themselves caught up in that anyone would suggest it is.

Also any kind of appropriation that involves 'improving' the original, as when certain celebrity chefs do their own take on well loved traditional dishes from other cultures.

But again, fusion of cuisines, changing it up has gone on for thousands of years.

Just swap ‘improving’ for ‘changing’ in your sentence.

And so long as they aren’t doing anything racist or disrespectful, then there isn’t a problem.

The one flaw with that is that racism and disrespect can be subjective. Who gets to decide whether it is or not?

Who gets to decide whether it is or not?

Well exactly. And you’ll find significant variation within the racial group itself on what is and what isn’t.

However racist behaviour has a clear definition, which probably helps.

African waxed cotton originated in Holland...they just called it "African".

But again, fusion of cuisines, changing it up has gone on for thousands of years. Just swap ‘improving’ for ‘changing’ in your sentence.

Absolutely, wouldn't argue with that.

I think what it boils down to is - there are some forms of appropriation that will always be offensive and crass, and on the other end of the spectrum you have mutually respectful sharing and collaboration, which is of course fine. The problem is when people try to argue that the former is OK because the latter exists.

^^I'm not saying that's what you're doing, btw!

there are some forms of appropriation that will always be offensive and crass

Give me an example of one that isn’t just plain ole racism?

It really frustrates me when (mostly vegan) bloggers copy Indian recipes but then use English names to describe the dish and pretend they invented it.

I’m finding this discussion very helpful by the way. It can be a tricky topic to discuss.

Racism does have a clear definition, but you'll still find people from all walks of life arguing over whether a particular thing is racist or not. Often it is obvious, but not always.

Me too!

Yes, I don't think there are any that are offensive and crass yet NOT racist.

But again, fusion of cuisines, changing it up has gone on for thousands of years.
DS1 (Filipino/Italian) created his own dish once. Soy noodles with ragu sauce. It was inedible

Braids are an interesting example in that lots of cultures use them. I'm from Northern Italy and if someone says 'braids' to me the first thing I think of is something this. My childhood 'special occasion' hairstyle, or older ladies wearing them for village fete/festival type things.
Although come to think of it I'd call them 'plaits'

I think cultural appropriation is mostly a load of bollocks. No-one tells black women they can't straighten their hair and dye it blonde 🤷 so for that reason, to me, it's all bollocks.

Here's a lefty head-scratcher for you. I have a picture on my wall which is (I think) 'African' waxed cotton, sent by my sister from Tanzania. I don't know anything about the history of waxed cotton, I just like the picture, which arguably makes me no better than those white teens wearing unaddressed and Hindus at festivals. If it had been produced by a white person, it would be pretty offensive I think. I can't actually be sure it wasn't.

I may in fact be exactly the kind of person I've been slating. Will try to post a picture of it now....

Fucking hell! Headdresses and bindis! Not Hindus, sorry.

My understanding of cultural appropriation is taking something that obviously belongs to a different culture and claiming it as yours or saying you invented it by giving it a new name or something and worse, making money out of it (in your new name).
This could be clothing, hairstyle, music, etc.

But a lot of what I see (when I happen to look because I don't really pay attention) people call cultural appropriation is someone for example like you've written OP, wearing a print s/he likes or hairstyle or something (usually knowing where it comes from but it doesn't really matter if you know or not) and not claiming to be the inventor of it.
I don't see appropriation there - you're not taking over.

The world is a big melting pot. I love indian sarees. I used to wear something similar back home to some events sometimes (and people will admire your 'Indian-style attire' or anyother outfit you choose to wear that isn't typical). I also used to wear the typical outfit of one of the different ethnic/cultural groups in my country and some would jokingly ask if I've joined that tribe, while admiring how nice it looks.

Most people in my country do the same - mix and match outfits from different cultures because you like how it looks. You don't go around claiming you came up with it, you just like it and use it or wear it.

I couldn't do the same thing here because of the accusation of cultural appropriation left, right center. It's madness!

To answer your OP, no it isn't cultural appropriation and most of what is being claimed to be isn't either.

It's a different story if it's worn to make fun of the culture - that isn't appropriation but "culturism" or racism.

OlaEliza But it does make for a more interesting discussion if you're open minded.

Growing up, a lot of my Indian cultural things were often made fun of. Now they are considered trendy, that's very frustrating to see.

Cultural appropriation is something people need to be careful about, it's the way it's done and the reasons behind it. Plenty of articles online explain this, may be worth doing a bit of research into it.

Anyway, here is the picture I mentioned earlier.