To wonder why people don’t seem to know about intuitive eating?

[sunshineonmywindow20]

I keep reading the plentiful diet/weight loss threads on Mumsnet - a range of approaches come up - low carb, fasting, calorie counting, WW, slimming world etc

But no one ever mentions intuitive eating, and I wonder why? I’ve been on numerous diets and for me it’s BY FAR the best way I’ve found to reconnect with my body, improve my relationship with food and -yes - lose weight.

I guess it isn’t always explicitly directed/marketed as a diet/weight loss tool, but for me that’s why it’s so good! It’s about enjoying food more (!) and moving towards your natural set weight, which might not be skinny, but for many people will mean they lose weight by eating in tune with their bodies (eating when hungry, eating slowly/mindfully, stopping when full).

But there are no banned foods, no rules beyond the above, it’s a happy process that encourages self acceptance and a healthy, life long change. Books wise there is a wide range - Susie Orbach, Paul McKenna, Beyond Chocolate, many more.

Diets are scientifically proven not to work long term and trap people into a cycle of misery... AIBU to recommend this to others looking to change their relationship with food? I promise I am not connected to it commercially or otherwise in any way

[quote sunshineonmywindow20]@ArgumentativeAardvaark I don’t think the kids were aware of what I was drinking tbh, they didn’t really pay attention to me - this is something I’ve learnt actually - other people care a lot less than you might think about what you eat![/quote]
You’re lucky, my son’s favourite sport is to interrogate me about what exactly I am eating and drinking at all times.

Joking apart though, is it healthy to model to children that skipping a meal is OK? I would also worry that my kids thought I was ill if I had no appetite.

Unfortunately once you’ve been considerably overweight, you’ve moved your set point due to the effects of excess fat on your metabolism. So intuitive eating will result in you eating more than if you had never been fat. Of course, it might still result in you eating less than other approaches, but my point is that it’s not quite as simple as you are suggesting. The set point is not static, but we have yet to find a way of eating that shifts it back in the right direction. I’m sure there are medications that can help, but probably not anything that is used particularly long term or useful for most people.

@Nearlyalmost50

It seems to me talking about the 'privileged' has become a reason not to do anything- don't Lean In at work as that's only for privileged women, don't enjoy lockdown even remotely as that's for privileged people, don't do intuitive eating as prisoners and truck drivers can't do it. Thinking through whether people are privileged is a great thing to do if you then go on to work out how you can level the playing field for those less privileged, but it's so often used just simply as a reason why we can't do things. I don't see why intuitive eating shouldn't be something a good proportion of people could consider- alongside thinking about how stuff like food deserts or the lack of availability/cost of good quality food would limit this. It's not a reason not to do it at all!

Nobody on here has said "don't do intuitive eating" - they've explained why it can't work for huge numbers of people. But as usual, the privileged pipe up as if it's some kind of personal attack on their circumstances!

If you can make intuitive eating work with your lifestyle, go ahead, but at least have the decency to accept the you're actually extremely fortunate to be in a place where you can eat that way.

Relearning how to eat normally is very difficult though surely? That's why people choose things that are easier even if they don't work long term - like low carb or sw or whatever.

@vanillandhoney

I often think people who hate the notion of privilege and complain loudest about it, are often the privileged who seek to defend their privilege.

Not saying that is you @Nearlyalmost50 btw, but just a general comment. I already replied to your on the previous page. Just to be clear.

@vanillandhoney - I completely accept that I'm fortunate to be able to do this, I think it's a really good point and I'm glad you've made it, thank you.

Reading back my OP it seems a big smug - as though I've discovered the elixir of life

By 'not knowing about intuitive eating' I guess I meant compared to the reams and reams of posts regarding diets - rather than to criticise those who overeat or who are forced into certain ways of eating by their jobs/lives.

sunshineonmywindow20, I don't think you should 'quiet down', I'd never suggest that anybody do that, least of all another woman. What I'm saying is that your phrasing is a bit needling, as if you can't comprehend that others don't know this. You've presumably only recently discovered it for yourself. I really am pleased for you because weight is a horribly triggering subject for so many women on a miserable merry-go-round of dieting.

I too have 'discovered' a tool that's been part of life for thousands of years. Intermittent fasting. Amazing results but also a feeling of being free of the diet crap which is the most important thing. Being free.

I really don't want to rain on your parade, just the "To wonder why other people don't..." phrase is just the most clunky and judgemental phrase ever, used by mostly trolls (which I'm convinced you are not).

Onwards and upwards to every woman who finds a way out of this diet crap. Whichever is their best route.

The problem is that you have to change your eating patterns until you are in a place were IE becomes natural.

So do an eating plan first, then move on to IE. I've been doing Exante, I'm on all of the associated forums. IE wouldn't work for any of us. That's what we move onto as our BMI drops and we can manage exercise.

Most people who are borderline/ obese need to reset their hunger levels and break their carb addiction. Some need to cut down on drinking etc. Which is why they aren't in the right place for IE.

Exante is working for me, I've lost three stone. It's working for lots of people. Fad diets don't work, but eating plans do.

Really interesting thread. Taking into account that not everyone can eat this way (for practical or emotional reasons), it is frustrating to see lots of women going back to the same diets again and again, losing and gaining the same stone or whatever. Diets always seem to be something that have to be endured and then ditched once you get to goal weight. I know when I've lost weight, in my head I've always thought "I can't wait to eat x again" which isn't a healthy way to be. No foods should be forbidden, but if I go back to eating x to the extent I did previously, of course I'll gain weight.

I personally find that intermittent fasting is working for me, because I'm feeling hungry again and eating when I'm hungry. Genuinely couldn't remember the last time my stomach rumbled and I felt proper hunger.

x-posted with you, OP. Most definitely not a troll and I'm cheering you on in your joie de vivre and elixr of life, would that all of us find this for ourselves too.

If I ate completely intuitively I reckon I’d be a size 12-14 which as I’m just over 5 foot would make me feel fat, uncomfortable and unhappy, though probably wouldn’t push me into the officially overweight category. Therefore I’d rather restrict what I eat (a bit) and be a size 10-12. If for whatever reason I really really wanted to be a size 8 I’d have to massively restrict what I eat.

I guess what I’m saying is that in a society that priorities slimness, for a lot of people eating intuitively would put them at a weight they’re not comfortable with.

LadyPrigsbottom I completely agree with you! Of course circumstances and cost of food drive a lot of food behaviours and choices, that's why I mentioned food deserts. If you live in one of those, intuitive eating is pointless. However, I have noticed a tendency on mumsnet recently to shut down a lot of discussions simply by mentioning privilege, or to suggest it's bad to do things or enjoy things, if other people cannot do so. I'm not sure that's helping those people at all.

If discussion of privilege is used to challenge privilege, or even better, take action, that's surely the best way to use that discussion but it's being used in a strange way currently on mumsnet and I'm not sure it's actually helping the less privileged. The fact that some people simply can't intuitively eat due to circumstance, doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good idea for lots of people who can.

And I agree with YOU @Nearlyalmost50 . We are very agreeable today .

Well I do that anyway - that's my problem.... my body intuitively tells me to eat cake, chocolate, nuts and crisps and drink wine.....I do and I am fat. I'm 2 stone overweight. (This is after a standard meal)

I have to stop listening to my body and start listening to my brain.

Personally I must be lacking in something somewhere because I just want to eat and don't seem to fill up at all....

I imagine this works well for some and that is great. I currently eat intuitively and it really isn't working for me.

That's the rub - we are all different and we respond differently to different things. I have to find my 'thing'

Eat what you want and stop eating when you're full.

Problem is my body doesn't register it is full.... I imagine different bodies register fullness and different points since we are not all the same

Gillian Riley’s work is worth reading on this.

It’s been a while since I read these books, but what I took from hers, Orbach’s and McKenna’s writing is that if you genuinely pay attention to what you feel before, during and after eating, over time you become :

a) more likely to choose the foods that make you feel good (not in a short term, sugar fix type way, but good as in feeling energetic, not bloated etc)

b) less likely to restrict and then binge because you don’t have that fear of feeling hungry , and you haven’t been denied treat type food at all

I actually think the mindfulness part is doable with any diet or way of eating - eg I am the same as the poster up thread who has to eat breakfast before work even when not super hungry for it but I have changed to eating stuff that genuinely keeps me going all morning and I don’t always feel the need to eat it all.

Also I think both Riley and Orbach suggest that you set times that you are going to eat and plan your meals ahead initially.

Sounds daft but sometimes if I go looking for biscuits I will imagine eating them first and how I will feel after and it does sometimes put me off and I have some water instead. Weird.

@Cartesiandebt

Well my body intuitively wants to live off junk food and Sauvignon blanc. I don't think it would work too well

Ditto! A disciplined approach is the only way for me, sadly!

I think it only does when you are 'off the diet' though. If you could eat the foods you wanted without thinking of them as naughty or bad and think you can have them anytime you want I think you are less likely to turn to those foods all the time.

Isnt it obvious? We have been overeating for reasons other than hunger for so long we have lost all sight of the signals that tell us to stop.

I did my third year psych thesis on the role of cognitive restraint in eating disorders and when you have ignored the signs of hunger or being satiated for a long time, you can no longer recognise them. Add that to eating when bored, eating when emotional, eating for comfort, eating to repress feelings etc and our brains start to associate food with comfort and reward.

I eat low-carb because it works really for me. The weight dropped off me once I stopped eating bread, rice, pasta, potatoes and sweet stuff, and I haven't really missed it. For example, last night I made a curry for our dinner, packed with chicken and green veg, and had mine with cauliflower rice while everyone else had basmati. It was still delicious and very filling - I can't deal with being hungry, due to childhood issues, so any kind of way of eating that involves going hungry is not going to work.

Now I'm well within the healthy weight range and maintaining, I will have carbs occasionally. Tonight I'm doing Jersey Royals with fish, and I'll have a couple, because I love them, but if it was chips I'd not bother, because I'm not that keen so it's not worth the carbs. Similarly, if I bake bread for the family, I'll have a couple of slices, because my homemade bread is delicious, but I'm not at all interested in eating the sliced shop bread they have most of the time.

I am getting back to the point of the thread, I promise - which is that eating low-carb has helped me to eat intuitively. The high fat, high protein food I eat fills me up much more quickly, so I've become much more aware of eating mindfully, otherwise I end up uncomfortably full very quickly. My portion sizes have naturally got smaller, and I've learned to wait a little while after eating before having anything else, because once my food "settles", I usually find I don't anything else.

If I just ate intuitively, I'd still eat more, because it would take more to fill me up - like lunch used to be a sandwich, and crisps, and a yoghurt, and maybe a biscuit or two. Now it's a green salad with cooked meats or cheese and a oily dressing, and that fills me till dinner. And if I ate intuitively, I might not be overweight but I'd certainly be bigger than I am now, because my "natural" weight is at least a stone heavier than I am now, and I really like how I look now.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I can see it's a great and helpful way to eat if it suits you - but some of us need to do a bit more to be the weight we're happy with.

Intuitive eating isn't about being thin, or even losing weight. That might be a by-product of eating intuitively, but it's not the key reason to do it. No one should start out on IE thinking it's a way to lose weight.

The reason to do it is about mental health. About being comfortable around food, about not obsessing about it, about not having your life decisions influenced by food or how you look, it's about body positivity, about health at any size and making conscious choices around those outcomes.

It's also not just a thing you can do because you've decided from now on you'll eat intuitively. You need to put in the work around how and why you eat the way you do, or why you feel unhappy about the way you eat. It's a counselling type approach, rather than a food choice approach really.

[quote sunshineonmywindow20]@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe OK, maybe I am a bit over-zealous about it, fair enough.

I just get a bit frustrated seeing so many diet threads on MN (and diet talk in real life!) when it's scientifically proven that diets don't work. Nothing to do with my opinion/experience, that's just a fact. I know the misery they cause and I guess just wanted to redress the balance a bit, as I see so much low-carb/WW/Slimming world stuff on here (and people seem to really struggle with it much of the time).

But I'll quiet down now :)[/quote]
If I ate intuitively, I'd be on a whole host of medication. Eating low carb means I'm not.

I tried Paul McKenna, but it really didn't work for me.

I tried eating what I wanted, when I wanted, that REALLY didn't work for me.

My buggering body doesn't really work and I'm at the end of my tether...

Being preached at by someone who has 'found the way' 🙄🙄🙄is fucking annoying.

Though I confess to having been that person a number of times 🤣🤣

You do you & quit telling everyone else they're wrong...because YOUR answer isn't everyone's answer & if you didn't have a problem you wouldn't have been reading all the 'diet threads'‍🤷🏻‍♀️

When I think about IE I have in my mind a connection of mind and body. I really don't believe that a diet of cola, crisps and chocolate makes anyone feel good. Maybe in the moment, but in the minutes and hours after - no.

For me (I haven't read any books) IE is eating and then monitoring how that makes you feel. A good diet makes you: feel good (emotionally), feel energetic, enables you to sleep comfortably, keeps you 'regular'. Other effects may be on skin (brightness, rash-prone), on joints, hair and nails. Eating foods that are bad for our bodies may result in us: feeling nauseous, peak-and-trough energy levels, impedes good sleeping patterns, feel deprived.

For example, I may eat a slice of cake if I feel low. The sugar boosts my mood and it feels nice to treat myself. I don't eat cake every meal, or every day, or even every week because most of the time, it spikes my blood sugar levels, I feel sick and it makes my head spin.

Comfort food it great; but shouldn't be a daily prop. If you need comfort every day, you need to see a friend or a counsellor because the answer is not on your plate.

I do feel sorry for shift workers, they have a rough ride when it comes to a good diet. Eating intuitively though is not about money or time, it's about making the right choices for our bodies. It isn't about rules and eating celery (how depressing). If you had to grab a meal at the petrol station, then grabbing a bacon roll for example would probably fill you up without the heavy greasy feel of a sausage roll. Better, a cheese or turkey sandwich.

The truth about carbs and fat seems to be quite a well kept secret - DNA testing can reveal whether you are individually predisposed to gain weight from saturated fat (even when controlling for overall calorie intake) or carbs but obviously that’s not affordable for everyone. Instead ‘insulin resistance’ is widely touted as being applicable to all.

Maybe those genetics only play a very minor role, maybe more, but I think it shows how individualised our approaches need to be.

Yanbu. Earlier this year I decided I would never go on another diet and I am working on eating intuitively. I am more at peace with food/myself than I have been my entire adult life.

But people don't trust their bodies or their appetite. Quite rightly in a way, because a lifetime of dieting and obsessing about weight will fuck with your metabolism and your cravings. All those people saying they would intuitively eat junk/wine are likely examples of this, as was I. We live in a diet centric culture so of course intuitive eating won't come naturally.

And I strongly disagree that it is only for the privileged. I do shift work, including night shifts and am making it work. That doesn't mean I never eat junk, that's not the point, but I am more honest about my appetite and my cravings with myself and that leads, gradually, to better choices.