to think this is actually racist?

[queenofknives]

I've had an invitation through my union to attend a 'focus group' for whites only. I think it's supposed to be some kind of anti-racism training. There is also a separate focus group for 'BAME' staff.

I don't feel comfortable about this. I am white, but don't want to attend a 'whites only' group, and I don't want to be divided from my colleagues who include black and asian women. We work together, we have always been a close team and, work-wise, what affects one of us affects all of us, so it makes no sense to split us up.

Is it unreasonable to feel this is creating unnecessary division? Splitting people into different groups depending on the colour of their skin seems actually pretty racist to me??? If I'm being unreasonable, can you explain why? I want to support my colleagues but I'm not at all convinced that this is the best way.

Often BAME people feel more comfortable expressing their views on racial issues without white people there due to (perceived or true) judgement from white people. So, there's a group for BAME people to speak. Equally, white people often feel that they are not entitled to an opinion on race and treat their racial identity as a default - so when BAME people are present white people avoid commenting or exclusively agree with the BAME comments. Your employer appears to be trying to negate that by speaking to white people separately. I'd attend and provide my opinion if I were you.

How can you possibly learn about anti racism whilst separated from POC? I would ask why?

It's not racist if it's a group led by black facilitators and with black speakers, to help to inform the white attendees of the experience and feelings of black persons living in the UK today.

If it's a bunch of white people talking to each other about how lovely they are to care and echo clambering their own interpretation of black experience - I would avoid like the Plague.

Of course, a group for BAME persons to speak freely without fear of the anger and "offence" of white fragility - perfectly understandable.

I think it allows people to be more honest and more issues can be challenged

Have you watched The School who tried to Ban Racism on Channel 4? They use this strategy to encourage the pupils to explore unconscious bias. The basic theory is that by separating and exploring issues in a safe space you can come back together better. Have a look at the programme. It's been on over the last couple of weeks but I can't recall which night.

@PicsInRed

It's not racist if it's a group led by black facilitators and with black speakers, to help to inform the white attendees of the experience and feelings of black persons living in the UK today.

If it's a bunch of white people talking to each other about how lovely they are to care and echo clambering their own interpretation of black experience - I would avoid like the Plague.

Why do I need someone to tell me about black people's feelings though? They aren't a monolith - they don't all feel the same way about everything. I care about the feelings of my black friends, family, and colleagues and they care about mine. I care also that they are not subjected to racism at work or anywhere else. It seems weird that someone wants to tell me "this is what black people feel" - I don't get it.

I'm really, really weirded out by the idea of racial segregation. I work in an educational setting. This surely can't be good?

You don’t think you have ever made an assumption on someone’s ethnicity ?

This is what it shall be exploring

@PicsInRed

Of course, a group for BAME persons to speak freely without fear of the anger and "offence" of white fragility - perfectly understandable.

If black and Asian staff want to have a meeting or group without white people I can understand that. If that's their choice. But since we all have to work together, I would expect that ultimately we would have meetings and discussions together. Because we work together doing the same role in the same team. We have way more in common based on that and it's weird to divide us by skin colour.

A focus group is different to a workshop though isn't it? One, primarily gathers information or tests ideas on a group whereas the other is about group members learning. In a focus group it is very common to split people into groups.

I used to run loads. Split by sex, age, job role, contract type, what ever was relevant to allow for people to feel most comfortable.

In the kindest way possible OP it’s not about you. It’s about giving BAME people a space to speak freely on issues that affect them.

It would be silly to do one without the other more educational setting for non-BAME.

What do you mean, 'made an assumption on someone's ethnicity'?

I agree that you should watch the channel 4 show on catch up. You will then understand why the groups are separate and you might agree that it is useful or yoy might not bit you will have a better understanding.

I'd hope at some point everyone would come back together for the workshop/learning/way forward part of the work though.

I agree it will be based on a new style of listening which forms affinity groups. I watched the program mentioned above and thought it was an excellent idea.

@Hotwaterbottlelove

A focus group is different to a workshop though isn't it? One, primarily gathers information or tests ideas on a group whereas the other is about group members learning. In a focus group it is very common to split people into groups.

I used to run loads. Split by sex, age, job role, contract type, what ever was relevant to allow for people to feel most comfortable.

Were they ever split by skin colour?

You're right, it is different than a workshop. But the details were actually very vague. It says 'focus group' but it sounds more like they want to shape our focus, rather than gather points of view.

One might hope that one day businesses might listen to men and women separately also as I’m sure women in a group would talk very different to when the sexes are mixed. We all know that will never happen though.

YANBU. I most certainly wouldn’t be attending.

I wouldn't go .

I guess it's like doing a sexual harassment focus separating men and women.
I bet there is huge amount of men who hate theses feeling as if they are being linked to abusers

You’re correct that black people aren’t monolith but one think that’s true is they are all likely to have experience racism.
Why do you need someone to tell about black people’s feeling? I’m not being a smart ass but it’s because some of your friends, family and colleagues are black.

Do you think you have never made an assumption based on someone’s ethnicity?

I would be very surprised if you never have or never do

It’s challenging that we do

To be honest, I wouldn't want to be part of a 'woman-only' group only, as sex is not relevant to the role we all do, either. I'm not saying that the women don't encounter sexist comments or attitudes but not within our team we don't, and we all treat each other with fairness and respect. If we were having a particular problem with sexism then I would want both men and women to be fully involved in that conversation so that we could deal with it as a team.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Do you think you have never made an assumption based on someone’s ethnicity?

I would be very surprised if you never have or never do

It’s challenging that we do

What do you mean by 'an assumption based on someone's ethnicity'? Could you give an example of what you mean?