to think this is actually racist?

[queenofknives]

I've had an invitation through my union to attend a 'focus group' for whites only. I think it's supposed to be some kind of anti-racism training. There is also a separate focus group for 'BAME' staff.

I don't feel comfortable about this. I am white, but don't want to attend a 'whites only' group, and I don't want to be divided from my colleagues who include black and asian women. We work together, we have always been a close team and, work-wise, what affects one of us affects all of us, so it makes no sense to split us up.

Is it unreasonable to feel this is creating unnecessary division? Splitting people into different groups depending on the colour of their skin seems actually pretty racist to me??? If I'm being unreasonable, can you explain why? I want to support my colleagues but I'm not at all convinced that this is the best way.

Isn't the whole point that the post IS from op point of view? How exactly would she come to this forum and express feelings from other peoples point of view? Surely that would be presumptive? Personally, I would question the organizers intent with an open mind, and see what you feel then

making it about you and your needs is really unhelpful

that's literally the point of asking the question. Because I need to understand this. What's unhelpful about that? Unhelpful to whom?

I don't see it as an 'attack' and obviously I don't think everything is or should be about me. I do think that work training (or focus groups or whatever it is) should be about the team's needs and should be something we do together. I'm not going to say black and Asian colleagues can't meet separately if they want to, or set up their own workgroup if that seems relevant, but joining an all-white 'affinity' group... that I can't see the justification for. What affinity do I have with other white people based on our shared skin colour? None whatsoever! I want to train with people in my team, not random people just because they happen to be the same colour as me.

Personally, I would question the organizers intent with an open mind, and see what you feel then

Yes, good advice. Thanks :)

Why do I need someone to tell me about black people's feelings though? They aren't a monolith - they don't all feel the same way about everything. I care about the feelings of my black friends, family, and colleagues and they care about mine. I care also that they are not subjected to racism at work or anywhere else. It seems weird that someone wants to tell me "this is what black people feel" - I don't get it.

Spot on!

For your OP though, I don't think it's racist in and of itself just because groups are separated. It's a focus group for whatever information they need to get. I would go first and find out what is being said, then make a decision if it's racist or not. I doubt it would be. At worst misguided but could also be a good thing, which I think is the intention.

‘what affects one of us affects all of us’

It really doesn’t.

You just said witnessing racism affects you as much as the person you love 😂 On that basis alone I think you’re the perfect person to be attending such a session.

Particularly as you’re in education go in with an open mind and try and learn.

As a brown person I wouldn’t be comfortable attending race based training awareness etc with white people. I’ve done it twice, its great to have the majority of the white staff almost constantly turn around and stare at you.

I imagine lots of women would feel uncomfortable having training on sexism in a room mainly full of men.

Sometimes you do need to be given space.

I mean it's not like they're separating coworkers in the office seating plan. That would be division.

@Backbackandforth

You just said witnessing racism affects you as much as the person you love 😂 On that basis alone I think you’re the perfect person to be attending such a session.

Particularly as you’re in education go in with an open mind and try and learn.

She really didn't say that.

onceuponatime thank you! I will read this with interest and watch the film.

Asian people will come under BAME so that perception that it is just about black people is wrong.

I think we have all made an assumption about someone based on their skin colour. I am absolutely not racist. I stand up to racism but we all have our own prejudices. Years ago a black male colleague became a good friend. I knew he was married and assumed he was married to a black woman. He wasn’t. He is married to a white woman. So although he is my friend and I don’t have racist views, in that I treat everyone with respect etc I still made an assumption based on his skin colour.

Another colleague of mine, knew her before she came to work in our department. She is mixed race. One of the first things one of her new colleagues said to her was ‘where are you from?’. You could say she was interested and not being offensive (she was - I know her views from other incidents ), but taking it at face value she was still making an assumption. When I first joined the office no-one asked me where I was from as I am a white female.

We also have bias. It might not be nasty or intentional but we do, whether it is race, perceived class, accents etc.

@Backbackandforth

You just said witnessing racism affects you as much as the person you love 😂 On that basis alone I think you’re the perfect person to be attending such a session.

Particularly as you’re in education go in with an open mind and try and learn.

No, I didn't say that.

Wheres us mixed race people going? Will I be on my mums team or dads team. Ridiculous. I'd refuse to join in on that stupid idea which is probably a good thing seeing as I would not fit in either box.

@AuntyPasta

‘what affects one of us affects all of us’

It really doesn’t.

In the context in which I said this, yes it does.

I don’t think racism can have affected your life very much at all if you cannot grasp, even in the abstract, the concept of making an assumption based on ethnicity.

Are you saying you’ve never witnessed that happening to your myriad black friends and family? In fact not only have you not witnessed it, you can’t even imagine what it might look like?

I’m afraid that sort of obtuseness suggests it’s entirely possible there are issues with racism in your workplace.

The programme on 4 actually showed probs wih this bame/ white approach as some of the people who were bame but not black did not feal the bame group represented them so they actually had to make a third group.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat except that’s exactly what was said:

“ I don't deny that black people experience racism. I have witnessed it many times and it has affected my life inasmuch as it affects people I love.”

Try reading the full thread next time.

It’s probably about addressing your concerns too OP. When we’ve had these talks, sometimes it’s dominated by the opinions and views from BAME, with white people feeling intimidated into saying and contributing nothing. This way, each group has a platform to discuss the issues relevant to them, so that a resolution can be arrived at that mutually addresses everyone’s concerns.

How do they pick what group you go in? If you have a hint of a tan or dark hair you are in the BAME group? I have not seen the show.

I’m half Asian

Do I get the racist intolerance towards me that my Asian family do no I don’t. Do I get assumptions made rarely. Do I get asked where I am from yes very often (Iranian, Turkish, Spanish, Hispanic)

I would put myself in the white group should we have such training because racism doesn’t not impact me directly and to most people even though a bit foreign looking I’m still white (certainly are to my family and black/Asian friends)

[quote Backbackandforth]@PinkSparklyPussyCat except that’s exactly what was said:

“ I don't deny that black people experience racism. I have witnessed it many times and it has affected my life inasmuch as it affects people I love.”

Try reading the full thread next time.[/quote]
I did read the full thread and I suggest you look up the definition of 'inasmuch'.

[quote Backbackandforth]@PinkSparklyPussyCat except that’s exactly what was said:

“ I don't deny that black people experience racism. I have witnessed it many times and it has affected my life inasmuch as it affects people I love.”

Try reading the full thread next time.[/quote]
Try looking up the meaning of “inasmuch” yourself. It doesn’t mean “the same as” it means “in so far” or “ to such a degree as”

@Backbackandforth, if you took your own advice and read the whole thread you would have seen the earlier explanation of what the word “inasmuch” means. Clearly you too have misunderstood its meaning.

YANBU. I don't see a problem with black people (or any other group) having a space to discuss racism without white people present if they want to, just like women should be able to discuss sexism in female-only spaces.

I wouldn't personally want to participate in a white people only group, so I don't blame you for being uncomfortable with the idea.