Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

No Wraparound Care from September

261 replies

Mum2Girls19 · 09/07/2020 18:43

School has advised that they are not offering wrap around care from September as bubbles cannot be mixed.
They are thinking that part time places are also the way forward as they cannot social distance properly in a smaller place.
Further information hasnt been announced yet
Im a bit lost of how Im going to work without wrap around care, yes im working from home but who knows how long that will be for

Anyone else??

OP posts:
RippleEffects · 09/07/2020 22:49

Our primary breakfast club is opening in September (luckily). They're planning to use the school hall rather than the usual classroom. My understanding is there are going to be bubble spaces so each year group bubble will have a separate table, individual drinks/ cereals and activities laid out by bubble. Places are limited but they always were.

The cleaners will then clean the hall for start of day.

CherryTreesandSeaswimming · 09/07/2020 22:56

[quote Hercwasonaroll]@CherryTreesandSeaswimming
That's appalling. Have you spoken to governors? I'd have phoned the police and said they were refusing to release your child but I'm a bit of a dick! Who are these insane heads?![/quote]
Its absolutely ridiculous, what makes it even more stupid is my ExH could walk in and take her at any time because he has PR but because my mum doesn't live with me she's not allowed to help me with childcare.

My ExH won't help me at all, he doesn't live in the area he travels back EOW to see DD at his parents house so he can't help in the week anyway.

RedToothBrush · 09/07/2020 23:01

[quote Hercwasonaroll]**@CherryTreesandSeaswimming

Push back on this. Nowhere does it say someone else can't pick them up. I'd send someone else and watch them try and say no. What schools come up with these ridiculous rules?![/quote]
@CherryTreesandSeaswimming had you informed them that she would be collecting in advance? Thats the only problem a can see.

I really think you are going to get heavy on this. Not all schools are as strict as this. Ask why they are being so strict and why they are being discriminatory to single parent households (that might make them sit up). Single parent households are allowed to 'bubble up' with another household anyway. Ask them why they are not in line with this part of the guidance? Get on the phone and ask difficult questions. Ask where in the official guidance it says that another carer can not collect a child?

I have just double checked the information supplied to me by my son's school.

There is absoluetely nothing in what we have been told that prohibits anyone else but a parent collecting. I don't believe there is anything in the official guidance either.

Failing a positive response from the school, get onto the LEA. And then MP. I would also consider contacting Gingerbread as they might be able to help you. www.gingerbread.org.uk/what-we-do/contact-us/helpline/

The school's position isn't tenable. Its not a risk issue. Its a school being arsey issue.

There was a legal case against the DWP last year over UC which was allowed a judicial review partly on the basis that it disproportionally affected women (single mothers) to the point that it affected their ability to work. Whilst covid legislation removes some liability in this area, if some schools (especially in the same LEA) are allowing another nominated carer to pick up a child, then the school is on dodgy ground.

DO NOT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER ON THIS. Your mother should be able to pick up your daughter. There is no acceptable excuse from the school. They are phobing you off because they think they can.

Get on the phone/email and make a fuss. You are within your rights to do so in this situation.

RedToothBrush · 09/07/2020 23:02

Its absolutely ridiculous, what makes it even more stupid is my ExH could walk in and take her at any time because he has PR but because my mum doesn't live with me she's not allowed to help me with childcare.

The school is talking out of its arse. Make a fuss.

RedToothBrush · 09/07/2020 23:04

In fact ask them for a written explanation from the Head / Governors of why it is not possible for your mother to collect your daughter. It would be interesting to see them try to justify it.

ItHappenedOneDay · 09/07/2020 23:22

On the pick up point, I would be tempted to tell the school that it will be impossible for a parent to pick up the child because they are required to be at work (and paying bills isn't optional). If the school objects to an alternative carer doing pick up, they can babysit the child until a parent can come at 5.30pm. This policy is completely ridiculous and ignores the economic realities that many parents face.

Disillusioned11 · 09/07/2020 23:23

Loving all this ‘cherry picking’ of the guidance to suit the teacher bashing ends.

What the guidance clearly states (about the only thing it states) is that legally the responsibility and accountability for the Health & Safety of staff, parents and children is absolutely laid at the head teachers door. So mostly the differences you see are personal level of risk HTs & Governors is willing to take on behalf of themselves and their staff. Because let’s be very clear ...... EVERY OTHER workplace in the country has to prove that they are ‘Covid secure’ before having their workforce return except schools. Where apparently all the Covid secure requirement ..... 2m or 1 m+ mitigation mysteriously and suddenly just doesn’t apply. If your workplace told you to work with 120 people a day at less than 1m apart, with no PPE or barrier or any other mitigation whatsoever other than wash your hands, they’d be closed down. So for hard teachers, the one tiny little thing they can do is try to make it the same 30 children without remixing them at afterschool club.

Esmesmommy · 09/07/2020 23:25

@RedToothBrush I thought the same about the illegitimate child care. If I have to quit for childcare reasons I may as well set up an underground childcare business.

Disillusioned11 · 09/07/2020 23:25

*hard = head

ItHappenedOneDay · 09/07/2020 23:39

@Disillusioned11. I totally see how it's difficult for schools but I don't think this thread is about teacher bashing, more about how impossible is going to be for many parents to cope with the new arrangements and how many of these arrangements may not reduce the risks in any case. Parents are allowed to be angry that they are being asked to do the impossible. The whole burden of coping is being thrown back onto parents (mostly mothers) and it is the last straw for many, coming after months of combining working with childcare.

I'm lucky enough not to have this issue, but I have close friends and relatives who do. I wish I lived near enough to them to help. I totally respect their right to moan, some of them are barely sleeping to fit everything in.

RedToothBrush · 09/07/2020 23:59

So mostly the differences you see are personal level of risk HTs & Governors is willing to take on behalf of themselves and their staff. Because let’s be very clear ...... EVERY OTHER workplace in the country has to prove that they are ‘Covid secure’ before having their workforce return except schools. Where apparently all the Covid secure requirement ..... 2m or 1 m+ mitigation mysteriously and suddenly just doesn’t apply. If your workplace told you to work with 120 people a day at less than 1m apart, with no PPE or barrier or any other mitigation whatsoever other than wash your hands, they’d be closed down. So for hard teachers, the one tiny little thing they can do is try to make it the same 30 children without remixing them at afterschool club.

This argument ultimately doesn't work though because if one child in one class gets it, the chances are their sibling's already have it making the bubbles guidance farcial and this argument by Heads that they can somehow protect staff in this way utterly nonsensical. Especially if cross class bubbles outside school are permitted by the government.

For example I know of one parent at DS's school who has 5 kids in different classes and she's in a single parent bubble with another parent who has a child in a different class and works as a dinner lady at the school.

If any of them got it, it'd probably mean that 6 out of the 14 classes in the school would be affected and there would most likely be a full school shut down (two cases in 2 weeks triggers a school closure).

Whilst I appreciate the covid safe idea about the workplace, it only works to a point. The argument that staff in a school are less protected than other occupations doesn't work either. Schools have the point that they are being constantly monitored, and they know who is in the school and have the power to ask parents to take a child home. In other work places this can be more difficult especially if it's public facing or a worker is low paid. There's much more difficulty in have real recourse or ability to make a point about what Health and Safety is bring applied.

I personally don't have a beef with the teachers. I have a problem with the nonsensical guidelines themselves that give this false impression that if you follow the rules it'll protect everyone from an outbreak. It's just not true even though teachers appear to have bought into the idea. The problem is ultimately that by the time you know there's an outbreak it's already too late and the school is likely to have to shut down and there's a fair chance more than one bubble is already affected. You have to stop infected kids from coming to school in the first place.

And making it exceptionally difficult for working parents across the board means that employers will take a harder line meaning sick kids are more likely to be sent to school anyway as parents grow ever more desperate not to be forced to quit jobs or put themselves in the firing line for redundancies. It's completely counterproductive to put this level of pressure on parents as I think it perversely puts teachers more at risk as parents resort to any means necessary to keep their jobs.

The whole guidance needs to be ripped up. It doesn't help anyone. It just lulls parents into a false sense of security and teachers into this mentality that doesn't accurately reflect their risks in the workplace and in direct conflict with the interests of parents (to their own detriment).

If the school are open they have to be fully open. Otherwise they have to be closed to all by key worker kids. Forget all the faffing about in the middle. It's utterly utterly pointless nonsense.

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2020 00:00

So mostly the differences you see are personal level of risk HTs & Governors is willing to take on behalf of themselves and their staff. Because let’s be very clear ...... EVERY OTHER workplace in the country has to prove that they are ‘Covid secure’ before having their workforce return except schools. Where apparently all the Covid secure requirement ..... 2m or 1 m+ mitigation mysteriously and suddenly just doesn’t apply. If your workplace told you to work with 120 people a day at less than 1m apart, with no PPE or barrier or any other mitigation whatsoever other than wash your hands, they’d be closed down. So for hard teachers, the one tiny little thing they can do is try to make it the same 30 children without remixing them at afterschool club.

This argument ultimately doesn't work though because if one child in one class gets it, the chances are their sibling's already have it making the bubbles guidance farcial and this argument by Heads that they can somehow protect staff in this way utterly nonsensical. Especially if cross class bubbles outside school are permitted by the government.

For example I know of one parent at DS's school who has 5 kids in different classes and she's in a single parent bubble with another parent who has a child in a different class and works as a dinner lady at the school.

If any of them got it, it'd probably mean that 6 out of the 14 classes in the school would be affected and there would most likely be a full school shut down (two cases in 2 weeks triggers a school closure).

Whilst I appreciate the covid safe idea about the workplace, it only works to a point. The argument that staff in a school are less protected than other occupations doesn't work either. Schools have the point that they are being constantly monitored, and they know who is in the school and have the power to ask parents to take a child home. In other work places this can be more difficult especially if it's public facing or a worker is low paid. There's much more difficulty in have real recourse or ability to make a point about what Health and Safety is bring applied.

I personally don't have a beef with the teachers. I have a problem with the nonsensical guidelines themselves that give this false impression that if you follow the rules it'll protect everyone from an outbreak. It's just not true even though teachers appear to have bought into the idea. The problem is ultimately that by the time you know there's an outbreak it's already too late and the school is likely to have to shut down and there's a fair chance more than one bubble is already affected. You have to stop infected kids from coming to school in the first place.

And making it exceptionally difficult for working parents across the board means that employers will take a harder line meaning sick kids are more likely to be sent to school anyway as parents grow ever more desperate not to be forced to quit jobs or put themselves in the firing line for redundancies. It's completely counterproductive to put this level of pressure on parents as I think it perversely puts teachers more at risk as parents resort to any means necessary to keep their jobs. Whether that be unregulated childcare outside safeguarding channels or sending sick kids in.

The whole guidance needs to be ripped up. It doesn't help anyone. It just lulls parents into a false sense of security and teachers into this mentality that doesn't accurately reflect their risks in the workplace and in direct conflict with the interests of parents (to their own detriment).

If the school are open they have to be fully open. Otherwise they have to be closed to all by key worker kids. Forget all the faffing about in the middle. It's utterly utterly pointless nonsense.

Lancrelady80 · 10/07/2020 00:05

Snap. And a teacher at another school in the same federation at that.

Lancrelady80 · 10/07/2020 00:08

Sorry, quote didn't work. Snap to being a teacher with none of the usual wraparound care available and therefore having probs with being able to work. Childminders are like gold dust within a 20 mile radius too, so that's not an option either

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2020 00:10

I mean if in a single day I can drop DS off at school (year 1) have a natter with another parent at the school gate (kids in years 5 and 6), go to work with another parent with 2 kids in different classes (reception and year 4) and then pick my son up go to beavers as a volunteer where I'm in contact with children from years 1, 2 and 3 (potentially at different schools all together) and repeat 29 other times for each parent in the class, how on earth do class bubble do anything but give parents and teachers a warm fuzzy feeling inside?

If anyone can give me a satisfactory answer to how the number of social contacts is sufficiently low enough across a class of 30 to stop a problem if anyone does test positive.

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2020 00:17

And add in teachers making the same point about how much of a huge unthought through issue this is, how can this be a teacher bashing thread?

TheId · 10/07/2020 00:37

I think the bubbles are to try to limit the impact of any positive test

At the moment you only need to close the affected child's bubble

If you have a mixed after school club group then you will need to close maybe 3 or more bubbles for 1 infected child which could be half the school.

Even with siblings I think you don't need to close their bubble. They would get Sent home to get a test but the bubble won't close unless they also get a positive although the whole family would need to self isolate at home.

If bubbles are closing very often with no notice then this will be a worse nightmare for working parents than lack of after school clubs.

Lancrelady80 · 10/07/2020 00:39

Trust me, teachers absolutely do NOT have a warm, fuzzy, safe feeling about bubbles. We all know siblings burst the bubbles, even before you add in the cover staff, visiting coaches etc that are to operate as normal come September. And we know how families mix at the weekends, end of day, other clubs. The bubbles don't work.
They just seem to add to difficulties for everyone, but that and hand washing are pretty much all we are allowed. Our small village shop provides more protection for its staff than we get, but we get to be trapped inside for 6 hours in often poorly ventilated rooms with multiple potentially asymptomatic people.

We wish the government would just come out and admit it rather than pretend it's all fine as long as we do bubbles.

According to PHE, 55 outbreaks this week were from educational settings.

Lancrelady80 · 10/07/2020 00:45

We all need to be back and want to be back, and there's no easy answer - not sure there even is an answer at all - but bubbles just provide an illusion of safety for parents I think. It makes it look like children's safety is being considered. But it makes our jobs significantly trickier.

Personally I wish they'd come out and say back to normal in September as data shows it's safer (assuming it does), just clean more and wash a lot. And cross your fingers!

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2020 00:55

But it goes back to my point that by the time you've got a positive test its already too late and the bubbles don't really help because infection is primarily via households.

People are infectious for several days before they display symptoms.

So if you have symptoms you go get tested, but turnaround times on testing is still more than 24 hours in most cases. If you can get a test immediately.

So by the time you get a positive test that triggers a bubble to be sent home you've probably had about a week of the virus potentially being passed around the class undetected.

And I think I'm right in saying siblings of those in affected bubble can still go to school whilst the child in the closed bubble stays home!!!

If you have one positive test what are the chances you won't have a second given this?

I just do not understand how the bubble system ultimately changes anything.

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2020 01:02

@Lancrelady80

We all need to be back and want to be back, and there's no easy answer - not sure there even is an answer at all - but bubbles just provide an illusion of safety for parents I think. It makes it look like children's safety is being considered. But it makes our jobs significantly trickier.

Personally I wish they'd come out and say back to normal in September as data shows it's safer (assuming it does), just clean more and wash a lot. And cross your fingers!

That's my point.

I know this. It's mucking the kids and parents about. And for what? Extra stress for staff.

It's stupid.

I'm sympathetic for how the guidance screws teachers on several levels.

TheId · 10/07/2020 01:09

If they do just do away with the bubbles and go business as usual that will be fine until you get a positive. Then you will need to contact trace that child in all the places they have been breakfast club, classroom, playground, lunch hall, assembly, after school clubs, nurture group, friends house on a play date, Cubs, swimming class.

It could lead to a very wide closure of a lot of classes and settings if all those potential contacts are sent home until thy get a negative test.

For me I am cross that after school club won't be available as my son was in every day. I am a keyworker and whilst DH can wfh it's disruptive for him with DS there. In one way we want after school club back BUT I am also worried about there being frequent instances of closures and him getting sent home for days at a time which I think would be worse. If the bubble thing limits the impact then it might be worth it.

RedToothBrush · 10/07/2020 01:25

If they do just do away with the bubbles and go business as usual that will be fine until you get a positive. Then you will need to contact trace that child in all the places they have been breakfast club, classroom, playground, lunch hall, assembly, after school clubs, nurture group, friends house on a play date, Cubs, swimming class.

As I say, by the time you get a positive case confirmed you are already at that point and it's throughout the school and close friendship groups anyway and other groups are going to be open too as cubs are now on Amber alert so are allowed to meet in person.

The problem is then that you don't have records or contact details for all the unofficial childcare arrangements that parents have had to do because of the bubble nonsense shutting wrap around care....

BelleSausage · 10/07/2020 06:50

@Lancrelady80

The issue is that isn’t what the data shows. Because no other schooling system has returned with a combination of entire years groups/no masks and no social distancing.

I think the government caved to pressure groups and has tired to hash out as best they can a plan that costs them no money.

Because we have money to persuade people to start going to Nando’s again in August but no money for developing better childcare systems and future proofing our education system against rolling lockdowns and more loss of learning?

Where is the continuity planning by central government? It is woeful to put in such blanket measures and leave all schools to to try to muddle through without any extra investment of support.

BelleSausage · 10/07/2020 06:57

@RedToothBrush

Bubbles only work if they are run as household bubbles I.e- school Rita’s where students from the same household are in school together with other household bubbles.

Which is how they started in Denmark and Australia.

Our government seem to think the pandemic is over and are leaving the childcare issues for parents to work out.

Which is what I pointed out when the guidance was released. The government haven’t given any thought to how working parents will cope with full time limited school hours.

It probably would have been easier and more workable for the government to make school p/t in proper bubbles and ask employers to be flexible.

I hope this makes people aware that the government gives no fucks about working parents. This plan wasn’t supposed to help them. It was supposed to make the government look good.

Swipe left for the next trending thread