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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Making the wearing of a mask manditory

589 replies

weepingwillow22 · 08/07/2020 13:49

Has anyone else noticed the worldometer projections for UK deaths have changed significantly since the relaxation of restrictions last week?
covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

The deaths are now predicted to be back up to 800 a day by november with a second peak in cases surpassing the first one.

The graphs do however show that this can be avoided if mask wearing is made compulsory.

AIBU to think that the wearing of a mask or visor (excepting those eho cannot wear them for medical conditions) should be made manditory in all indoor public places in order to avoid this second peak.

If cases rise again to the extent projected here another national lockdown will be required resulting in more job losses, school closures and unnecessary deaths.

Surely the wearing of a mask is a small price to pay to avoid a second peak particularly as the scientific evidence now points to it being highly effective in preventing asymptomatic spread.
www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

Making the wearing of a mask manditory
OP posts:
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Downton57 · 10/07/2020 20:58

@vintagevixen I'm not sure you have the right to tell me what to think. I have worn a mask since the beginning of lockdown because I know the sacrifices my daughter has been making for other people and I know she would prefer me to wear one.
Anyway, now that masks are mandatory in Scotland, arguments are neither here nor there. The choice is between wearing one, or not and risking a fine.

Vintagevixen · 10/07/2020 21:04

Definitely for my daughter, but also for me. But as I said I will wear one because its compulsory now, not because I believe it works.

The whole emotive argument re. HCP's wearing PPE annoys me TBH, its our job. Like most people HCP's don't all have the same opinion as each other. I have sweated through enough PPE shifts (menopausal body! Hot flushes!) to not want to wear a mask out of work too for no reason.

HeIenaDove · 10/07/2020 21:05

30 minutes between changes will be a rough estimate, some people release more saliva etc than others. Many are unaware of these concerns

Pharmacist in Boots told me they have to be changed every half an hour.

Vintagevixen · 10/07/2020 21:07

Not telling you what to think at all, the choice is yours. I would never force you to not wear a mask if you want to, or tell you what to think. Its not personal but I am also a HCP and don't necessarily have that opinion. All debate is nuanced.

TaxTheRatFarms · 10/07/2020 21:07

I can understand that for some people with medical conditions it can be really hard to wear masks. But people who can, should.

I had no immunity to rubella when I was pregnant and had to wear a mask every time I went outside for nine months. In 40 degree heat. The first week was a bit weird, but after that was fine. It felt weirder after I had my rubella booster and go outside mask free!

Japan has weirdly low rates of infections and people there wear masks in flu season, hay fever season and when they catch a cold. It’s not abnormal, painful or impossible over there - it’s just normal for people.

I know that nobody likes change, but change for the sake of protecting other people really shouldn’t be this hard.

ChristmasFluff · 10/07/2020 21:11

I wasn't wearing a mask before, because of all the other precautions that were being taken in shops etc where I live. I am wearing one in shops now, because I want to be the change I want to see.

The commonly-touted research states that if 80 per cent of people wear masks, the transmission rate is cut by 50 per cent.

Anyone denying that masks prevent the transmission of infection must surely wonder why surgeons wear them? Maybe surgeons just love the style?

And what's all this about 'medical people' not wearing them?? I've been wearing one at work since the very start of this - because the organisation I worked for trusted the advice from the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy rather than the shitty nonsense advice Public Health for England gave care homes.

The vast majority of people who have difficulty wearing a mask will find that what they are experiencing is 'air hunger' due to long-term hypererventilation. Their breathing pattern has become too fast so they blow off carbon dioxide(CO2) to such an extent that they never reach the levels of CO2 that would normally trigger a breath in. So their respiratory centres reset, and trigger a breath in at much lower levels of CO2 than the norm. This leaves them vulnerable to panic attacks and anxiety, as low CO2 levels affects biochemistry and stresses the body.Anxiety and panic creates hyperventilation, so you then have a vicious circle.

The only treatment is a regime of breathing exercises that create manageable air hunger, so that the respiratory centre is bathed in CO2 and resets to normal levels. Or you could wear a mask as often as possible, for as long as possible, so you re-breathe CO2, just as you would if you breathed into a paper bag or your cupped hands - common advice for panic attacks.

I am asthmatic, with a tendency to hyperventilation and panic. Hyperventilation massively worsens asthma. Wearing a mask at work has been sweaty and claustrophobic. But it's also been very calming to me on days I've been stressed. Re-breathing CO2 is not harmful.

TaxTheRatFarms · 10/07/2020 21:12

But VintageVixen it’s not about “wearing a mask without questioning”, its doing something that can protect other people. Even if it wasn’t 100% proven or effective you’re still trying to put other people less at risk and hopefully achieving that. Whereas not wearing a mask definitely doesn’t protect other people.

I mean, if you have to wear PPE at work, you know it protects people, even though it is a sweaty pain in the bum.

Downton57 · 10/07/2020 21:17

Sorry, if it annoys you, but has been impossible not to get emotional about my daughter working in a Covid ward during a pandemic. I was terrified for weeks and if I can do this one small thing to help this go away I will.

Vintagevixen · 10/07/2020 21:21

Yes but I wear the n95 masks - proven to work, very tight seal etc.
Homemade cloth ones/scarves around the face? Proof very flimsy. I spend most of my time demisting my glasses on the way home!

sophiestew · 10/07/2020 21:21

YANBU - but I suspect that even with masks we will end up with a second wave unfortunately.

Vintagevixen · 10/07/2020 21:25

Doesn't annoy me at all, very understandable mothers instincts.

My mum and dad who are in their 80's wear masks to shops, I think she doesn't need to, but I wouldn't tell her what to do.

tigger1001 · 10/07/2020 21:28

@user1471543683

In Scotland and had to wear one at shops today. Absolutely hated it, had to take glasses off as they were getting steamed up, felt claustrophobic, itchy and hard to breathe. Will not be going to the shops again anytime soon!!
Yep - me too. At least I know the only shops I will be in are food shops and will be trying to only go once or twice per month
HeIenaDove · 10/07/2020 21:31

Symptoms of Byssinosis
If you're exposed to dust particles for long periods, you may experience symptoms during the entire week. The symptoms of byssinosis are similar to asthma and include tightness in the chest, wheezing, and coughing. If you have a severe case, you may experience flu-like symptoms, such as: a fever

TaxTheRatFarms · 10/07/2020 21:33

*N95 respirators are only necessary in medical situations such as intubation. Surgical masks are generally more protective than cloth masks, and some people find them lighter and more comfortable to wear.

The bottom line is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will be of benefit.

“The concept is risk reduction rather than absolute prevention,” said Chin-Hong. “You don’t throw up your hands if you think a mask is not 100 percent effective. That’s silly. Nobody’s taking a cholesterol medicine because they’re going to prevent a heart attack 100 percent of the time, but you’re reducing your risk substantially*

Source - an infectious disease specialist Smile

www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

VallarMorghulis · 10/07/2020 21:36

I agree with you OP. I had unfortunately to travel on the Tube yesterday, and I was shocked by the number of people not wearing any kind of face coverings.

TaxTheRatFarms · 10/07/2020 21:36

If people are having problem with their glasses steaming up, try threading a thin bit of bendable wire through the top of your mask where it fits over your nose. Then when you put the mask on, pinch the wire close around the shape of your nose and it should help.
Someone I work with tapes theirs down with surgical tape which is an interesting look!

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 10/07/2020 21:39

If your daughter has a specific reason for not wearing one, she'll get an exception.

Rubbish. I have a psychiatrist's letter but there are plenty of people on this thread who dont think that is acceptable. Apparently you don't even need mental health support if your reasons are related to trauma, you just have to suck it up and stop being selfish.

Frozenfrogs86 · 10/07/2020 21:41

I think the government has taken the view that the population would rather have a second lockdown in the late autumn/winter and have a more normal summer than drag out the semi-lockdown longer and have no second peak.

Vintagevixen · 10/07/2020 21:44

Yep I know about N95 masks in medical situations, assisted in many intubations and extubations. Looked after loads of infectious TB, Acinetobactor, MRSA, ESBL producing organisms etc etc. All patients on ITU with resp infections its full PPE and N95. All aerosol producing procedures face shield added.

I've read that report from USCL, but will read again, don't remember it convincing me about the efficacy of silk scarves!

sleepingpup · 10/07/2020 21:47

Rubbish. I have a psychiatrist's letter but there are plenty of people on this thread who dont think that is acceptable. Apparently you don't even need mental health support if your reasons are related to trauma, you just have to suck it up and stop being selfish.

No not rubbish. Doesn't really matter what a few randoms the internet think. And not really plenty.

TaxTheRatFarms · 10/07/2020 21:52

Vixen I wasn’t doubting your knowledge of N95 masks in medical situations Grin You’re most definitely the expert there!
That whole post start to finish was the quote from the article but the bolding failed, so it’s hard to tell. They’re just pointing out the efficacy of different masks. So I’m going to rock my cloth mask and if anyone needs a sudden intubation in the street I will run in the opposite direction Grin

sleepingpup · 10/07/2020 21:56

I suppose if we could all get the N95 masks Vintage we would. And that would be the best scenario. But it isn't going to happen anytime soon, not after the last PPE crisis.

So in the meantime we non HCP, make do with cloth and disposable masks. And it's a case of better than nothing. Not perfect or 100% but better. Because it is a barrier. And the best scenario is we are protecting others by reducing droplets.

why wouldn't you?

canigooutyet · 10/07/2020 23:07

[quote Downton57]@vintagevixen I'm not sure you have the right to tell me what to think. I have worn a mask since the beginning of lockdown because I know the sacrifices my daughter has been making for other people and I know she would prefer me to wear one.
Anyway, now that masks are mandatory in Scotland, arguments are neither here nor there. The choice is between wearing one, or not and risking a fine.[/quote]
That's isn't strictly true because there are a number of exemptions that also include people without health problems.

canigooutyet · 10/07/2020 23:26

So which Science do you follow?

The Science that says not to use them even in emergency situations, potentially they can cause the wearer harm. They tested bandanas etc long before CV and continue to do so. Of course they are, if we can make them at home, that saves the NHS money as they can use these as standard.

The Science says oh but these home made things might possibly work with no clear guidance on the thickness of the material - 2 ply btw has proven ineffective according to a link posted by someone further up. The type of material used. Some mention the use of a filter, which is kitchen roll for anyone interested. No/little mention about the potential harm they can cause to the user and the public.

Someone mentioned silk, yet the info out there generally mentions the use of cotton.

MarshaBradyo · 10/07/2020 23:28

That graph is a bit stark

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