Making the wearing of a mask manditory

[weepingwillow22]

Has anyone else noticed the worldometer projections for UK deaths have changed significantly since the relaxation of restrictions last week?
covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

The deaths are now predicted to be back up to 800 a day by november with a second peak in cases surpassing the first one.

The graphs do however show that this can be avoided if mask wearing is made compulsory.

AIBU to think that the wearing of a mask or visor (excepting those eho cannot wear them for medical conditions) should be made manditory in all indoor public places in order to avoid this second peak.

If cases rise again to the extent projected here another national lockdown will be required resulting in more job losses, school closures and unnecessary deaths.

Surely the wearing of a mask is a small price to pay to avoid a second peak particularly as the scientific evidence now points to it being highly effective in preventing asymptomatic spread.
www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

It's not a conspiracy theory. Look at how germs/viruses stay "alive" on clothing not just your tins of beans and a takeaway container!!

Look at infection control policies from Health organisations across the globe. Because of the shortages all those policies were updated and have remained in place until now. PPE used for virus control isn't make a mask at home, their policies even advised against the home made ones unless its a last resort. They are walking around hospitals now without masks all day long yet they are in the epicentre still.

How many people used to joke about avoiding going into a hospital because you never know what you will pick up.

Why didn't more police die? Those poor fuckers get spat on when making arrests, the get pissed on, puked over etc.

During the first wave it should have technically closed supermarkets and not because of a lack of food. It's only been in recent weeks that more protective stuff is being implemented.

Oh and on London transport; police, nhs and some others are also exempt from wearing a mask on public transport.

You will have those who have had the thing and unless things have changed you cannot get it twice? THey will have been tested to know if they are save or not so who are they protecting from wearing a mask?

But tbh I've stopped playing close attention anymore because it's here to stay. And the mask stuff is so. contradictionary when you look at virus controls.

@enlightened owl I agree, I would rather get a fine than wear a mask. Wore one to the hairdressers on Tuesday, spent most of the time touching it and pulling off to breathe.

Look at the various plans WHO have put up since January. There hospital stuff is amazing and very detailed in terms of layout, ventilation the works. Pages long lol but interesting if you like this kind of things.

But I'm not a medic. I just gather all the info I have from medical people, and read various guidelines etc and make a decision based on all the info. For me it doesn't matter if it a cold, flu, stomach bugs etc they are all harmful to me so I have always assumed that everyone else is dirty and take steps to protect my health.

Wearing a mask doesn't protect my health. Look at the medical guidelines about why home made are not encouraged, because they can do the wearer more harm especially when they become moist. 30 minutes between changes will be a rough estimate, some people release more saliva etc than others. Many are unaware of these concerns.

The only effective mask is ppe quality and considering there is a possibility of a second wave should we be encouraged to buy them and stock up on them? This was part of the problem that caused the original shortage that lasted a long time.

And of course, those PPE masks also require regular changing/cleaning.

I'm in Scotland and am just home from the shop. I wore a mask, as now mandatory, but I really struggled. I struggled to breathe. I struggled to see and I spend much of my time fiddling with the mask as it was riding up.

I will wear one, despite possibly being exempt as am asthmatic, just to stop the judgemental people shouting, but I will also not be going anywhere other than essential food shopping, which I will limit to a couple of times per month. Certainly won't be having a wander around shops etc in the foreseeable future

@canigooutyet

Look at the various plans WHO have put up since January. There hospital stuff is amazing and very detailed in terms of layout, ventilation the works. Pages long lol but interesting if you like this kind of things.

But I'm not a medic. I just gather all the info I have from medical people, and read various guidelines etc and make a decision based on all the info. For me it doesn't matter if it a cold, flu, stomach bugs etc they are all harmful to me so I have always assumed that everyone else is dirty and take steps to protect my health.

Wearing a mask doesn't protect my health. Look at the medical guidelines about why home made are not encouraged, because they can do the wearer more harm especially when they become moist. 30 minutes between changes will be a rough estimate, some people release more saliva etc than others. Many are unaware of these concerns.

The only effective mask is ppe quality and considering there is a possibility of a second wave should we be encouraged to buy them and stock up on them? This was part of the problem that caused the original shortage that lasted a long time.

Medical guidelines do in fact encourage the use of cloth masks for the general public.

See for example guidance from the CDC in America
www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html

'COVID-19spreadsmainly from person to person through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, talks, or raises their voice (e.g., while shouting, chanting, or singing). These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs.Recent studiesshow that a significant portion of individuals with COVID-19 lack symptoms (are “asymptomatic”) and that even those who eventually develop symptoms (are “pre-symptomatic”) can transmit the virus to others before showing symptoms.

To reduce the spread of COVID-19, CDC recommends that people wear cloth face coverings in public settings when around people outside of their household, especially when othersocial distancingmeasures are difficult to maintain'

I am also just back from the shops ( Scotland ) . Virtually everyone complying from what I could see. Member of staff supervising at M and S door politely reminding anyone who wasn’t wearing a mask and offering a free one. No problems thank goodness .

Had a look at that Telegraph report (which is not the actual study so hard to compare methodology, variables, sample size etc) on the US war ship.

From the article - lots of anecdotal reporting e.g. relying on people to say how often they wash their hands, social distance (people tend to exaggerate how good they are at doing these things!) What types of masks were being worn? Did they have access to high grade N95 surgical masks for example. Were there teams that mixed quite closely, and others that didn't hence less risk of cross infection between "bubbles"? One would have to read the actual study to determine this.

I seem to recall that during the whole cruise ship infection drama, there were quite a lot of people on board who didn't get infected but as far as I am aware there was no routine mask wearing. I am relying on memory here so correct me if I'm wrong.

What I am saying is mask wearing is one variable. I will still wear my silk scarf round my face on transport and if it becomes compulsory in shops just because I am generally a rule follower, but I won't be wearing it in the middle of the park metres away from everyone, behind the wheel of a car or walking down an open street.

Homemade masks are useless. The virus is around 1000 smaller than the gaps in the weave in regular cotton. It’s like using a chain link fence to keep out the mosquitos.

So I guess my question is, does any one know how effective home made masks are, should, I want to purchase one?

I don't go out very often but the amount of people Ive seen, when picking up my click and collect, whose masks are not covering their noses and mouths properly..

@RedElephants why do you want to purchase a home made mask if you think they’re useless 🤷🏼‍♀️

Also it’s not home made if you have to buy it 😁

That is the advice for public.
I am talking about advice for within medical facilities that are around the viruses. If medial staff are advised against because of a multitude of reasons, then how are they suddenly ok for us?

It also mentions a lot of may help to reduce the spread. They also have a number of exceptions. Yet how many times has it been repeated on this thread wear a mask or stay at home; selfish for not wearing one etc? How many links were put up yesterday saying wear a mask no exceptions, and look some actor also says it so it must be true?

America says children over 2. Another country over 5. Well which one?

Children don't spread it so they don't need masks in classes etc. Well erm see above.

Why should I and others be vilified for questioning the logic of something that doesn't make sense to begin with? Surely more of us should be saying wft?

We have had Boris and crew from the beginning say yes, but no, but yes and ignoring proper scientific advice. Proper medical advice aimed towards other medical people treating these sick people doesn't endorse wearing masks constantly, and they really do not advice using home made ones.

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-use-face-masks-community.pdf

Give me time and I will post more. I had all the worlds stuff bookmarked but fucked something awhile a go so skimming various documents I have for sources.

The wearing of masks inside should be mandatory.

Not so much evidence outside in the summer but it might in the winter.

Some people find it hard to wear them but a) they are usually the most vulnerable and need to be protected by others wearing them and b) if it’s children if we can we should keep them out of public transport and shops as much as possible anyway.

Someone yesterday lambasted a traveller for eating and drinking on the bus or something. Yet it is exempt of course it is because of things like diabetes, those with kidney disease and countless other medical reasons.

Oh and UK guidelines state those under 11 do not have to wear them.

www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-safer-travel-guidance-for-passengers#exemptions-face-coverings

@LouiseTrees

Scotland is making the wearing of masks indoor compulsory from this Friday. I think the rest of the UK should folloW their example.

This is not true.

Shops and public transport. Not "indoors".

@canigooutyet, we get it, you don’t want to wear a mask.

You are desperately trying to find reasons not to wear one. No amount of evidence will ever convince you because you’ve already decided you don’t want to wear one.

What I am saying, along with many other posters and the majority of scientists, is that they reduce the risk. They reduce transmission. Do you not believe that to be the case? Do you believe they increase the risk? D

Do you seriously think that the fact that some countries recommend them from the age of 2, and others from the age of 5, is a strong argument against wearing them at all?

CDC. guidance to their medical staff also mentions avoiding none ppe masks

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html

So if they are known to be ineffective in hospital where they also have decent hygiene practices to begin with, then how can they be effective for Joe Boggs and the £30 designer they bought from Etsy? Or cobbled together from some random household item?

How many are considering the chemicals used in that cloth they are now breathing in? That random tshirt hasn't been tested for this purpose, neither has your scarf or anything else not medical grade. And we don't want to be buying medical grade to begin with unless it is needed for it's proper purpose.

[quote canigooutyet]Someone yesterday lambasted a traveller for eating and drinking on the bus or something. Yet it is exempt of course it is because of things like diabetes, those with kidney disease and countless other medical reasons.

Oh and UK guidelines state those under 11 do not have to wear them.

www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-safer-travel-guidance-for-passengers#exemptions-face-coverings[/quote]
In Scotland children over 5 need to wear one in shops.

For me it's inconsistency that's the problem. So here, children under 12 don't need to social distance, but need to wear a mask in shops.

Was reading last night that local authorities are asking the Scottish government for guidance on school transport - are masks required? As yet, as far as I am aware no guidance but also no current suggestion that children will need to wear masks in school so why on school transport?

@canigooutyet

That is the advice for public. I am talking about advice for within medical facilities that are around the viruses. If medial staff are advised against because of a multitude of reasons, then how are they suddenly ok for us?

It also mentions a lot of may help to reduce the spread. They also have a number of exceptions. Yet how many times has it been repeated on this thread wear a mask or stay at home; selfish for not wearing one etc? How many links were put up yesterday saying wear a mask no exceptions, and look some actor also says it so it must be true?

America says children over 2. Another country over 5. Well which one?

Children don't spread it so they don't need masks in classes etc. Well erm see above.

Why should I and others be vilified for questioning the logic of something that doesn't make sense to begin with? Surely more of us should be saying wft?

We have had Boris and crew from the beginning say yes, but no, but yes and ignoring proper scientific advice. Proper medical advice aimed towards other medical people treating these sick people doesn't endorse wearing masks constantly, and they really do not advice using home made ones.

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-use-face-masks-community.pdf

Give me time and I will post more. I had all the worlds stuff bookmarked but fucked something awhile a go so skimming various documents I have for sources.

They are ok for the public becuase they are better than not wearing a mask at all and are useful as a means of source control especially given the high proportion of asymptomatic cases. Yes ideally everyone would be wearing medical face masks but these obviously have to be prioritised for medical professionals. The source you link to clearly states this.

@canigooutyet

CDC. guidance to their medical staff also mentions avoiding none ppe masks

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html

So if they are known to be ineffective in hospital where they also have decent hygiene practices to begin with, then how can they be effective for Joe Boggs and the £30 designer they bought from Etsy? Or cobbled together from some random household item?

How many are considering the chemicals used in that cloth they are now breathing in? That random tshirt hasn't been tested for this purpose, neither has your scarf or anything else not medical grade. And we don't want to be buying medical grade to begin with unless it is needed for it's proper purpose.

Typical conspiracy theory.

Do you work for the Trump organisation?

Yellow can you point to what part of that post is a conspiracy theory?

No I don't believe that on it's own is strong evidence. But then I don't see it as strong evidence for either side.

It is not about my determination to not wear one. I am here to simply engage in the subject and also provide other credible sources of information to help others make an informed choice.

I have yet to see concrete evidence that categorically says that they do stop the transmission.
I have yet to see evidence about potentially dangerous homemade masks that are safe because within the medical community they advice against and explain why. They constantly update their virus control policies because well, viruses are constantly here.

Don't you want to know about the potential toxins that maybe inhaled as a result of whatever dyes etc are is in that material. The type of material also comes with additional chemicals. Should we be breathing in washing products this much? What about fabric conditioners and those silly disinfectant add ins you buy seperate, because many will be using those things because well it's anti bac? Those with the Zoflora attraction etc.

This is why I look at various medical and scientific sites and get my info direct from them. Then apply a bit of both from public and medical and try and exist for another day, It possibly helps/hinders because I am exempt and looking at all the health aspects. It's the same thing when a new med or treatment gets mentioned. I don't sit there and agree, I look at other information available to me. It's what helps us make informed choices.

From the information you have looked at, considered the health of you and your family you have made the decision to wear one to make your informed choice.

I have done the same and it's a no. If I wasn't interested I wouldn't be continuing to find the answers for those any many other questions I mentioned. If you have any credible links would love to read them.

They are ok for the public becuase they are better than not wearing a mask at all and are useful as a means of source control

But what’s the point of wearing ineffective masks? They don’t work.

I live in the NW and where I live people that wear them are in the tiny minority.

It’s far too late to start demanding every one wears one.

@Evelefteden, the part about cotton T-shirts containing ‘dangerous chemicals’ that would be harmful if breathing through them.

@canigooutyet, I understand you have MH issues and the last thing I want is to make them worse. I think it’s best if we stop engaging on this thread. It’s quite clear we are not going to agree.

Why @Yellownotblue because I posted one source from CDC that also verifies what I am saying about exemptions etc?

What about the op who also posted a link from CDC.

I have also posted links to our version of the CDC as well.

But of course. Questions = conspiracy.

When it's simply questions = choice.

For our visit away next wee we have gone for scarf style masks (or neck gators I think they were called before Covid came around), with space for filters. They feel pretty comfortable, are designed to reduce it being too hot or sweaty, and you can change the filters - they fit into a pocket which goes in front of your mouth. They are allowed where we are going too, not just the normal masks.

I don't mind wearing a mask but my ears are too small for keeping them on. I have to use one of the ear saver things, but then those get really tangled up in your hair so can be a pain - a literal pain getting them out again! I think I need to buy a non plastic one.