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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

old fashioned values?

113 replies

sushila · 06/07/2020 18:56

AIBU to feel outraged by my husbands old fashioned values regarding things like the fact that he thinks he should be able to sit at the 'head' of the table as he should be respected by the children My dd (12) his sdd would also like this seat but he feel strongly that he should have it. I totally disagree and think everyone should be respected. I'd value opinions as I'm really struggling with this, it's also one of many values that I see as dated, thanks

OP posts:
TidyDancer · 06/07/2020 19:30

This is potentially minor depending on what the other dated views are?

bettsbattenburg · 06/07/2020 19:30

@DrPatient

He's an adult, she's a child. If that seat is considered to a position of authority (which in your house it appears to have become) then it should go to an adult. It's not about respect, it's about authority. A child does not have authority over an adult in the home. I can see a valid reason why your partner would like that seat, I see no valid reason why your daughter would.
I can't see that seat as being the one of authority in my house, various people sit there depending who feels like it but I do feel strongly that it should not be the seat for the man in the house. it's a popular seat in our house because the chair has arms.
DrPatient · 06/07/2020 19:32

My dad used to sit at the "head" and my mum at the other "head" (is there a difference?). I think it was easier for them to be able to control the flow of conversation, giving each of us a chance to speak and from that angle they could give eye contact to whoever was speaking without turning the back of their head to someone (if they were sat next to someone they'd have to turn away from whoever was at the "head" to speak to the person next to them.
Maybe this sounds nuts but it made it easier for us all to discuss things collectively.

lyralalala · 06/07/2020 19:34

What other views does he have?

If it's one issue then it's a minor one. If your DD is kicking off because her step-father is constantly coming out with with things then it's a different matter

sushila · 06/07/2020 19:35

Thanks for having an opinion, seems like it’s quite divided. Just to say that my daughter doesn’t consider she has a right to sit there she just likes it and Is happy to move around. As someone said it is maybe more about him ‘throwing his weight around’. We live in his house and income from my house pays a lot of the expenses here so I feel at a disadvantage anyway as most things are his. He won’t move btw!

OP posts:
ShinyFootball · 06/07/2020 19:35

I'm surprised that so many people do this.

I don't think that a child having the seat an adult usually sits in just because they say so is a good idea. I have my spot on the sofa and get them to shift up if they're occupying it!

HoneyBee03 · 06/07/2020 19:35

This has never even occured to me. I agree with you OP. Aside from an adult needing a seat at the end of the table so they have more room than a child, this thing about authority and respect based on where you sit at the table sounds bizarre and very old fashioned. My toddler sits at the head of the table in my house, because it's just where I happen to have dragged the highchair to.

I'd find it very strange to visit my parents for dinner and be kicked out of a seat because my dad should be sitting there. We all just grab a chair and sit in it.

ShebaShimmyShake · 06/07/2020 19:35

If it's an oval or rectangular table, it has a head and a foot. Head is generally the position where you see most of the room.

PlanDeRaccordement · 06/07/2020 19:36

We have an oval table and so me and DH sit opposite each other on the ends, with two children between us on each side. This was so that when they were young, there would always be an adult next to every child to help them if they needed anything and also to give equal attention.

thepeopleversuswork · 06/07/2020 19:38

Sorry, the idea that he automatically gets to sit at the head of the table is a load of Victorian nonsense.

Yes, adults should have authority over children and children need to respect that. But that doesn't give your OH the right to be an over-bearing, pompous and sexist twat.

Grobagsforever · 06/07/2020 19:39

I couldn't have sex with a man who insisted on a particular table seat, would remind me of a toddler whinging about getting the 'blue cup' etc too much.

Vinorosso74 · 06/07/2020 19:39

I think it's old fashioned to have a head of the table and somewhat authoritarian which I can't be doing with. I think family meal times should be relaxed and friendly with people sitting where they want, although not switching mid spaghetti bolognese. Obviously if a parent needs to move between bickering siblings then that is sensible.

SnackSizeRaisin · 06/07/2020 19:39

It doesn't matter who sits where, but a 12 year old should do what they are told with things like this. If you bring your 12 year old up to think that they have the right to tell adults what to do you are just going to make their lives more difficult and less happy. They will think that their future employer, landlord etc can also be ordered around and will probably end up learning the hard way.
Think about it - why does she want to sit there? Is it just because she wants to get one over on step dad? Or is the seat actually better in some way? Do you let her have her own way with every thing else as well?
What if she said she wanted to sleep in your bed from now on, instead of you?

thepeopleversuswork · 06/07/2020 19:40

Also where has this idea come from that the head seat confers some mystical family authority. What is it like a wizard's throne or something?

Ridiculous.

SnugglySnerd · 06/07/2020 19:40

We switch around for almost every meal! One end of our table is up against the wall because we only just have space for the table. Whoever sits at the "head" has to be the person who gets up to go and get things like pudding as it's the only seat where it is easy to get up and down so it's usually an adult there (usually Dh so I don't have to get up!!) Sometimes the dcs ask to sit somewhere else like yesterday my mum was there and they all wanted to sit next to her so there was a bit of swapping around which led to a child at the "head". Everyone still sat and ate their dinner and chatted as normal, there was no unruly behaviour because there was a child in a place of "authority" Grin

sushila · 06/07/2020 19:43

I reiterate that she doesn’t expect the seat, she doesn’t talk back to him, she is submissive to him. I think it’s a totally outdated attitude and if you dominate children they will grow up to dominate. I am not a permissive parent and give boundaries and say no. This feels like an issue that could be discussed not dictated. I agree that the actual act is not great, it’s really what’s behind it that bothers me.

OP posts:
zingally · 06/07/2020 19:43

I don't think your husband is unreasonable to expect the "head of the table" seat over your daughter... She has no claim over it.

Honestly though, it's a bit nonsense. Growing up, we didn't have this "head of the table" thing. If anything, my sister sat in that spot!

I was on my sisters right, my mum on her left, and my dad on the next one down from mum!

Zaphodsotherhead · 06/07/2020 19:44

He is wrong to 'demand respect'. Respect has to be earned. He's not wrong to say that your DC should do as she's told to a certain extent (children can't rule the house), but he can't expect her to kow tow to him just because he's a grown up.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 06/07/2020 19:46

@DrPatient
One son is nearly 17 and 6’2” the other is nearly 13 and 5’6”. When DS1 was 12/13 he didn’t get the front seat either. I am treating them the same way at the same age. DS2 did link it directly to height. I am sure there is an element of wanting to copy his brother but it’s about asserting that he is growing up.

TimeWastingButFun · 06/07/2020 19:48

We tend to sit at opposite ends of the table with the kids in the middle, but it's habit more than anything (plus I usually cook so I sit nearest the door to the kitchen so I can get up and down). I sometimes sit elsewhere but my husband does always sit at the end (none of us thinks of it as the head of the table, rather archaic term!) but then he's a creature of habit and sits in the same chair in the living room too, while we all tend to sit wherever.

bettsbattenburg · 06/07/2020 19:49

@sushila

Thanks for having an opinion, seems like it’s quite divided. Just to say that my daughter doesn’t consider she has a right to sit there she just likes it and Is happy to move around. As someone said it is maybe more about him ‘throwing his weight around’. We live in his house and income from my house pays a lot of the expenses here so I feel at a disadvantage anyway as most things are his. He won’t move btw!
I wouldn't be able to tolerate that. You are his equal and it should be your collective house not his house. I've always made a point of saying to my children that it is our house, the final say is with me and we do all have our favourite seats to sit in but we're very clear it's first come, first served. If somebody is in 'your' seat in the lounge you can ask if they mind moving but no means no, it's not always a no though.
TimeWastingButFun · 06/07/2020 19:49

Thinking about it, the carver chairs fit best at the ends because they are big, and my husband is very tall so I think it's more about the comfort of the chair than anything else!

bettsbattenburg · 06/07/2020 19:51

We have a narrowish dining room and the tendency is for the person at the 'head' of the table is the one who would be asked to go to the kitchen to fetch salt/pepper/a drink etc for somebody else, I think that diminishes it's popularity :-) I always sit at the far end Grin

BooFuckingHoo2 · 06/07/2020 19:53

Respect has to be earned what a grim attitude. I respect everyone unless they give me a reason not to because I was brought up to be a polite and respectful person.

People teaching their kids that respect has to be earned is probably a contributing factor to the bad behaviour of some of today’s youth. You’re doing your kids a disservice not to teach them to have automatic respect.

RealityBased · 06/07/2020 19:54

There are two separate questions in the room here, really, aren't there?

One is "are we all, fundamentally, equal?" and the answer to that, I should hope, ought to be an unequivocal "yes".

Point in case: despite having been born and bred upper MC, I come from a family where, by tradition, on Saturday family luncheon would consist of "bread and [insert topping as determined by value here]. Whereas this would boil down to "proper ham for the men and older boys and random cold cuts for the women and children". I'd argue that this is fundamentally wrong. To the extent that, being an executive in my thirties these days, I've still got an irrational desire to be a "ham person" despite a salary that would easily allow me to procure the whole bloody pig once a week.

The other question is "ought children to accept that they do not necessarily take precedence - within the family as well as in general?". And, again, for me this is a clear "yes".

I realise I'm not being very useful in terms of the "who gets the desired seat" situation here. But my point, perhaps, is this: it's a question of motivation. Are you trying to model some kind of meritocracy, in which case an adult should argiably get the top spot on the grounds of actual contribution or are you approximating the monarchy where it is, more or less, an accident of birth?

Personally, I think it matters!

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