To not believe in policing spelling and grammar?

[Ethelfleda]

I used to, I admit.
But now - I think it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how language evolves and changes.
Language is not mine to own and tell others how to use!
I feel that the onus is on me, as the receiver of words, to understand what someone is saying - rather than the onus being on the person who is delivering it - to make themselves understood. Why cut the legs out from someone who wants to put their thoughts out there, by belittling them, when they just want to put their equally important views out for all to see?

Show me a person who ‘misuses’ reflexive pronouns. Who ends an email with ‘please do not hesitate to contact myself should you require further information’ and I will show you someone who is attempting to compose an email with absolute respect for the recipient. Not someone who is ‘incorrect’ with their grammatical structures.

So - go fourth! Use language as you see fit! It is wonderful and inimitable and it is YOURS! And I promise, I will always understand your message!

This post is probably written completely wrong. But please, dear reader, reach behind the order that I put the words in and try to understand the sentiment. And speak in return however you see fit.

I love words.

It's all very well to say the onus is on the communicator, but it would not fair or accurate to assume that people with poor grammar or spelling are simply lazy or stupid, or that they are somehow communicating badly on purpose. Nobody wants to produce a poorly-written document or job application. It's hard to correct your mistakes unless you know what you're looking for.

I think it's probably easy for an articulate, grammatically-aware person to vastly underestimate the amount of time and effort it would require for someone to mend their written or spoken style by acquiring grammatical knowledge and understanding as an adult. Lifelong communication habits would be very hard to break. It's certainly not going to be achieved through snarky corrections by pedants on the internet.

I think yabu. Correct grammar, spelling and punctuation is very important in making yourself understood, especially in a professional setting.

I know a few people who have appalling literacy skills and I find it extremely difficult to understand what they are writing about as there is no use of capital letters, any punctuation whatsoever, etc.

For example; if they were riting a sentence it would look somethin like this then they would go on about a diffrent topic or subject wiv no propa spelling or anything i no they aint dislexic just never really boverred wiv school n cudnt be arsed

It hurts my brain to try and decipher it. So no, the onus isn't on who ever is reading the text. People should at least learn the basics of a language.

@Babdoc

I don’t understand why anyone would be upset to have their grammar or spelling corrected on MN. Surely they would be grateful to have learned something and be spared making the same mistake again? It’s a chance to make up for a poor school failing to teach them basic english in the first place. Lacking good literacy skills holds people back in life, and means their cv is less likely to land them a job interview. Helping them to level the playing field is not being patronising, it is offering assistance in the same way adult literacy schemes do. Or do you think we should ban those too, OP, and leave people in ignorance?

Ha ha, a littlevcreative character development, you are portraying a pompous wally extremely well here

My DDS primary school refused to police spelling and grammar,it made the move to secondary school much harder than it should have been.

@Hillarious

I remember on my year abroad as part of my language degree, I was doing one to one classes with a student struggling with English. I asked what he wanted to concentrate on that week, and he asked for help with the gerund. My initial thought was "WTF is a gerund?" I also learnt around this time that there are two present tenses in English. Who would have known!

Certainly, having a good understanding of grammar adds clarity to, and can help avoid ambiguity in, your written English.

There is nothing like teaching your own mother language to people for whom it is "foreign" for being made aware of "rules". I came to central Europe many years ago and at that time people really were keen on learning English. I had a teaching career behind me - not in languages - but I missed the teaching / classroom etc. and registered with the local "night school" to teach English. I ended up going to the Uni bookstore to buy myself a book about the rules of the English language! I knew what was right and what was wrong but the class members wanted "rules" to follow. I can understand it now but at the time I found it daunting! P.S. don't ask me to explain the gerund - I'll have to look it up in now well thumbed book!

Although it wouldn't be polite to correct an adult, I think it is extremely important for children to be taught the correct spelling, grammar, puctuation and pronunciation, and to have their mistakes corrected.

Language needs to be precise in order to impart the correct meaning (particularly in legal documents, for instance) and if we let things slide, where will it all end?

I don’t understand why anyone would be upset to have their grammar or spelling corrected on MN.

Sorry, but anyone who say this must have an astonishingly poor understanding of social interaction and indeed human nature (arguably a much worse failing than having poor grammar).

If someone in real life were telling you about their violent husband, asking you if you have a good bolognese recipe, wanting advice about their special needs child, telling you about a funny incident, or any of the umpteen topics discussed on MN, would you respond by saying 'Actually, it's 'whom', not 'who'?. I doubt it. If you did, do you think they'd be grateful? More likely they would be a bit upset or offended and feel that the actual point of what they were saying was being ignored in favour of grammatical point-scoring? So why is it ok to do it on MN?

I recommend the book 'Mother Tongue' by Bill Bryson to anyone who is interested in the history and development of the english language. It's a very good read.

You can't just "change" grammar and spelling because you don't know how to use it properly-that's just pure laziness imo OP, so yes, YABVVVU.

OP - are you opposed to "policing" of maths?

You can't just "change" grammar and spelling because you don't know how to use it properly

AFAIK, English doesn’t have one overarching regulatory body so there is no official way of using it properly. The English language has changed overtime; words change spelling and they change meaning. It should continue to change where it needs to.

Crap grammar is not OK at work involving written communications, including email.

I absolutely hate it on the internet. So many of us aren't from an english speaking country that I find it the heighth of arrogance if you feel the need to police our spelling and grammar. I always wonder if the people that do that are just as precise in writing a post in a different lamguage thenselves? Like arabic or dutch or bahasa? I guess not, so why the arrogance?

I am a bit of a pedant when it comes to S&G however I would NEVER correct someone on line as you have no idea of the background. But as PPs have said, not knowing the difference between their, they're and there, discreet and discrete (my pet hate) and so on is sloppy. The real issue comes when the lack of punctuation can completely change the context of a sentence. 'Let's eat granny' or 'let's eat, granny' - not the same at all!!

@Babs709

You can't just "change" grammar and spelling because you don't know how to use it properly

AFAIK, English doesn’t have one overarching regulatory body so there is no official way of using it properly. The English language has changed overtime; words change spelling and they change meaning. It should continue to change where it needs to.

But who decides when it needs to change? Is "could of" going to become an acceptable variation of "could've" or "could have" because more and more people are using it?

😱 personally, I hope not!

I would assume there would need to be an “official” reason to make an “official change”. As I say though, I don’t believe there is a regulatory body so I’m not entire sure who is policing “could of”. Is it wrong if we know what people mean?

Spellings change over time and dictionaries reflect this. Grammar is a bit trickier. "Could of" doesn't make any sense and is probably from people mishearing "could've" and not knowing enough grammar to understand the difference.

A few years ago, here in Germany, there was a "Language Reform" i don't remember from whom it was initiated, but I was personally very thankful - nobody knew (and a lot of us still don't know ) what is correct and incorrect, so we go through life making our "mistakes" and blaming it on the language reform.But you know what, we understand each other even if all the "ts" are not crossed and all the "is" have a dot on them. Language is communication, very successful with "hand, feet, face, a gesture": i try to be correct, but is anybody going to kill me because I mak
e a mistake?

I try not to do it but one that really grates on me is “Don’t worry your be ok”. That one I struggle not to correct. I’m not great on grammar myself Though but like to think I know the basics.

I'm still annoyed by the incorrect use of 'literally'. However, it seems to have become even more of a thing in the last couple of years. I think I may just have to join them because I can't beat them.

"Let's eat Grandma"
"Let's eat, Grandma"
Commas save lives.

The only time I ever corrected anyone online was when someone had corrected somebody else - and made a basic mistake in their own post. Talk about pots and kettles...

Having said that, basic mistake do make me wince, and I do think that letting children think that these things don’t matter any more, it’s only nitpicking old pedants who care, is doing them a great disservice. Plenty of people do still care. Poor or sloppy English is still likely to be a disadvantage when it comes to finding jobs and progressing up the career ladder.

I promise, I will always understand your message!

Hi on them then my what this Moran.

@PlanDeRaccordement

It’s “go forth” not “go fourth”

Yes
YABU

Although you did, in fact, go (post) fourth.

You have used ‘onus’ twice in once sentence. ❎