To not believe in policing spelling and grammar?

[Ethelfleda]

I used to, I admit.
But now - I think it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how language evolves and changes.
Language is not mine to own and tell others how to use!
I feel that the onus is on me, as the receiver of words, to understand what someone is saying - rather than the onus being on the person who is delivering it - to make themselves understood. Why cut the legs out from someone who wants to put their thoughts out there, by belittling them, when they just want to put their equally important views out for all to see?

Show me a person who ‘misuses’ reflexive pronouns. Who ends an email with ‘please do not hesitate to contact myself should you require further information’ and I will show you someone who is attempting to compose an email with absolute respect for the recipient. Not someone who is ‘incorrect’ with their grammatical structures.

So - go fourth! Use language as you see fit! It is wonderful and inimitable and it is YOURS! And I promise, I will always understand your message!

This post is probably written completely wrong. But please, dear reader, reach behind the order that I put the words in and try to understand the sentiment. And speak in return however you see fit.

I love words.

I admit to being a bit of a grammar and spelling pedant (yes I know my spelling is poor but I have a physical disability so make a lot of typos. I know they are wrong but often don't have energy to correct them) and I am ashamed to admit I used to call people out on their SPAG mistakes but I don't like doing so anymore Years ago, when I started Uni and shared a kitchen in halls, I made the mistake of jokily correcting someone's spelling of the word "Knives" in a written notice on one of the cupboards "please put the knives away" - they had spelled it "knifes" and I crossed it out and corrected it. Turns out this lday was dyslexic and I felt a right knobber when she told me that. So I try these days not to be a dick about SPAG.

I feel that the onus is on me, as the receiver of words, to understand what someone is saying - rather than the onus being on the person who is delivering it - to make themselves understood.

Why? Surely language is a fundamentally two-way street. Both trying to understand and trying to be understood. The other issue is that sometimes grammar and spelling are VERY important.

New bloke I'm seeing: 'I'd rather watch Netflix then shag' is a bit different to 'I'd rather watch Netflix than shag'. And there are lots of other examples you could think of. It doesn't mean you have to be an arsehole, but it does matter.

It tickles me that every single one of the pedants' posts has a SPAG issue.
I think they call it Muphry's Law.

@Disquieted1

It tickles me that every single one of the pedants' posts has a SPAG issue. I think they call it Muphry's Law.

Muphry's Law LOL I see what you did there!

Google Muphry's Law. It wasn't a joke.

@Disquieted1

Google Muphry's Law. It wasn't a joke.

I googled but it only came up with Murphy's law, not Muphry's. Initially I thought you were deliberately misspeling Murphy's law, hence my comment.

is there really a MUPHRY'S law, then?

I feel that the onus is on me, as the receiver of words, to understand what someone is saying - rather than the onus being on the person who is delivering it - to make themselves understood.

Flurgh thats' waht not gebby wonkfesting. Giz a fecky brake!

Ya glebbit naffer whad bixxy nix. In figgle plod. Ya gree?

is there really a MUPHRY'S law, then?

There really is!

I don't know how I feel about this really. If I see some incomprehensible, badly spelled, punctuation-free bollocks being spouted on Facebook I am always tempted to reply sarcastically about lack of basic intelligence.

I'm not so bothered on other forums (apologies but I'm almost phobic about the word fora) when I think people are posting genuinely. If I find what someone has to say offensive or disagreeable then poor spag just gets my back up further.

The thing I don't have patience with is very long posts - whether from the op or in reply.

I tend to stop reading posts if they have more than a few errors in them, unless the poster has pointed out that it's not their native language, or they are dyslexic. Sentence structure bothers me less as I'm not great at this but poor spelling really irritates me. Writing "ect" is ignorance.

Mixing up words like breaks/brakes or reins/reigns is laziness and demonstrates no understanding of how English works as a language. I understand the confusion with homonyms (there/their/they're), but again, it demonstrates no understanding of the roots of the words, and no effort to try to rectify this.

I disagree.

As with any communication it is reasonable to expect the communicator to try to be clear, accurate and make themselves understood, as well as the receiver.

Of course context is important - if someone posts on here in distress because her husband is financially abusing her it's not the time or place to correct her spelling. But if I received a pitch that was misspelled or had other mistakes then that would put me off: if you can't use an apostrophe correctly why would I trust you to write lines of software accurately?

Language is most powerful when you know how to use it. Spelling, punctuation and grammar are part of that. Sometimes incorrect SPaG doesn't make that much difference to understanding but sometimes it conveys exactly the wrong message.

You said you want to learn:
This post is probably written completely wrong - should be 'wrongly' not wrong.

I recomment 'Eats, shoots, and leaves'.

I work with some native English speakers who didn’t learn grammar at school. They have found learning a second language to be really difficult, because they don’t have the knowledge of how a language is structured.

I also work with a lot of people who have English as a second language. Although very fluent, they often find English spelling and grammar, when it is incorrect, quite difficult to follow, so I feel a responsibility to make sure that my use of English is comprehensible to them. They often request that the native speakers correct them (if needed) so they can improve. I often have to point out that their written English is better than that of their native English-speaking colleagues.

Go forth! Be illiterate!
I’d rather mistakes were corrected.

I broadly agree OP, although I do find text speak horrendous - even though this is supposed to be a natural development.
I really do stop reading any post that is full of text speak, yes, I can read and understand it, but I have such a hatred for the sheer laziness of anyone who feels the need to type 'U' rather than 'You', I simply cannot continue.

I am well aware that this post will be full of grammatical errors, but can i just say that I went to high school in the early seventies. We were not taught about split infinitives etc., we were just encouraged to write freely and with imagination.
I remember learning times tables parrot fashion, but English lessons were all about reading and comprehension and writing imaginative stories.

That us my excuse for poor grammar anyway 😄

Language is how we communicate. I don't agree that I, as listener, am responsible for understanding what the speaker is bringing over. There will always be mistakes in SPaG but at the same time there ought to be a respect for the language that we have - otherwise we get into a situation where it is all "Yeah but, no but, yeah, but ..........."

IMO we should all try to spell correctly and communicate clearly.

However anyone who corrects spelling and grammar other than in a teaching context is just an embarrassing idiot. I judge bad manners much more harshly than bad spelling, and snotty correcting is the height of bad manners.

Not buying from a company due to spelling is just silly, unless it is a signwriting firm.

@MrsTerryPratchett

is there really a MUPHRY'S law, then?

There really is!

I also googled it, but came up with Murphy's Law, i.e. "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong." What does Muphry's Law state?

For the record, I teach English as one of my subjects and I do correct my students' SPAG, as that is my job. I don't correct people irl, as I'm wary of sounding condescending. I believe the onus is on those who initiate discussion to clarify their points; the "receiver" can only go on information provided to decode the message. English may evolve, but surely that refers to the introduction of new words / modern terminology, not necessarily tearing up the rules of accepted language, developed over time to facilitate clear communication? It's an interesting discussion.

I don’t agree. And trying to reframe a lack of learning as ‘languages evolve’ is bollocks. I wonder if native French or German speakers happily ignore bad grammar from their fellow speakers.

'lack of learning' please get over yourself.

IMO people obsessed with spelling are making up for insecurities about their own intelligence.

I am pretty good at spelling, but for some reason this issue just enrages me.

I wouldn't correct someone's English if they didn't want to be corrected but people often ask me for my help (English is my parent's 2nd language, I've been double checking official stuff for them since junior school), and I've proof read dissertations (and asked friends to do mine), and I'll try to help DS1 with spelling and grammar when he starts school.

English is technically my second language too and I find 'text speak' or lack of punctuation confusing and it takes me a lot longer to read what is written.

I think it depends on the situation if you were an English teacher than yes you would need to but some people police the spelling of other people on AIBU. I remember contradicting someone and made a typing error she tried to bring me down with that fact I spelled something incorrectly. She just couldn't think of a counter argument.

I really struggle with spag, I have various learning difficulties and no matter how hard I try I have always struggled with things like there/their etc, where and how to use punctuation, not know which words to use. This is not laziness, I have various learning English resources that I read and use often so I do try and improve. But if someone commented about it on a forum I'd just roll my eyes. The oh how will they learn if you don't correct them? You think no one has corrected me until now? That a snarky post about my spag is going to suddenly solve it. Reminds me of the cancel the cheque type threads, just having to get your post in as if no one ever has come up with that kind of wisdom before 🙄

@Ethelfleda

All that shows me is someone who has not learned about reflexive pronouns and thinks that using "myself" makes them sound more formal

But that’s kind of my point. They think it sounds more formal - and they are making an effort to sound that way for a reason, surely? For a good reason?

Myself sounds pompous and self-aggrandising

Not going to lie, I'm a complete grammar Nazi. Although I'd never be rude and point out grammatical errors made by randomers on the Internet! But if I receive a poorly-worded text off DH or a family member they stand to be corrected 😂 in a lighthearted way of course.
I cannot STAND the mix up of there, their and they're. And you're and your. Proper grinds my gears! And don't get me started on the random use of apostrophes...