To think 'big food' industry is to blame for the obesity epidemic, not individuals?

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When I read on MN, and when I talk to people IRL, there's an underlying attitude to obesity that it is all down to willpower, or lack of, and individual choice over whether to be fat or thin. If we all tried a little harder and were disciplined, everyone could be their ideal weight.

I recently got on to reading some books on processed food, they are not new concepts, the ideas have been around a while. Lots of scientists and MDs from the US, where the obesity epidemic is a little further down the road than in the UK, have written about the addictive nature of processed food, books such as 'Wheat Belly', 'The Dorito Effect', Robert Lustig has done many talks on it. In the UK, Joanna Blythman has wrote quite a bit on the UK food industry.

Some have linked processed food to activating dopamine receptors in the brain so it works like other addictions. Yet cannot escape it once we walk into a supermarket, most of what is for sale there is very highly processed food. It's all sugar, salt, wheat, the bad fats (processed oils like rapeseed, not natural fats which are healthy). Flavours created by amazing scientists so you'd rather eat the flavour chemicals than the actual food.

Yet we are telling obese people, some of whom may be using food addiction to deal with past trauma, lifestyle stress etc, 'it is your choice, what you eat, you need to try harder, have more self respect, more willpower'.

I see obese people now as 'you are a victim of 'big food', the companies (only a handful of global billion pound companies) that produce and cleverly advertise and use supermarkets to sell this highly refined, highly addictive processed food'. If they were educated and told it's not their fault, they might decide they don't want to play the 'big food' game anymore.

[quote Blackandwhitehorse]Interesting article here which busts the willpower myth, lots of interesting research on this www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2018/1/15/16863374/willpower-overrated-self-control-psychology[/quote]
That’s an interesting read.

Basically it makes my earlier point about availability but also willpower is easier with wealth ( the future is uncertain if you are poor, therefore immediate gratification generally is more likely) and that you need to find healthier habits enjoyable on some level rather than because you “ have to“.

This is touching a nerve with me as both my kids have put a lot of weight on over the last year or two and it's made me feel like the shittest parent in the world. I changed my hours at work and relied a lot more on processed food and take away as I was so tired. For example up at 5.30am for school leave at 6am.. kids get home at 2.30pm, I got home at 4.30pm, DH home at 5.30 most nights. By the time we've eaten done homework etc it's time for bed as we have to get up so early. We don't get out to exercise much because of our working hours and commitments (both teachers), and during lockdown we haven't been able to go anywhere at all as everywhere has been closed and it's too hot to physically walk anywhere during the hours we are allowed out (+45 degrees). We live in quite a small apartment as well so not much room to exercise.
I feel absolutely terrible about it as I know it's all my fault and I know people judge me as I am overweight too. I am cooking a lot more now. I do know how to cook healthily. Everything is cooked from scratch. We eat a lot of fruit veg salad etc. I think my portion sizes are wrong to be honest plus the lack of exercise ( which will be rectified soon as things are beginning to slowly open up here ) may help. But I am obsessing about what long term damage I have done and it's making me very miserable.

It is interesting to read this. I live in one of the poorest countries in EU and fast food and takeaways here are luxury, same with the price of ready meals. You have to have a good income to eat it often. That is the reason most people still cook everything from scratch, that is the only way you can eat decent food if you don't earn too much.

It is always funny for me to read how on mumsnet cooking from scratch is associated with wealthy middle class families, here where I live is exactly the opposite. Of course, poorer people choose cheaper cuts of meat, cheaper fish and vegetables and fruit, but they cook, they cook all the time. For instance, a jar of 400 grams tomato sauce is two and a half pounds, and if I make it myself it is 50 p. So, I make it my own. If you go and visit somebody, you can be sure that mum of the family is going to make a cake from scratch for guests.

There is four of us in my family and I'm the only one who is obese. And it is not because I do not cook and I do not cook healthy because I do. But in my case every morning before everybody wakes up I'll eat 1500 calories extra made of bread, butter, caffe latte with lot of sugar, biscuits.... The rast of the day I'll eat perfect by the book.... So in my case it is not the food industry, I wish I could blame them, but I can't.

Some people have medical conditions (steroids really make it hard to not put in weight , same with some ADs etc)

But the 60% of people who are overweight/obese are not all helpless victims

A lot of it is to do with choices

People don’t like to be told what to do (do more exercise, eat normal portions of home cooked food, don’t overeat sugary stuff) but surely there is an element of personal responsibility?!

Nobody has to eat fish and chips or pepperoni pizza in large quantities. Nobody has to drink 8 pints. These are choices.

As to being poor, yes my mind boggles as to how often people can afford to eat takeaway here. And also how grim takeaway food in the U.K. is (sorry but it’s so bad,imo, hardly a “treat” it’s virtually inedible, super salty and super fatty, and not a fresh ingredient in sight )

Absolutely agree it's not more expensive to eat well. If you just buy real food, meat, fruit, veg, baking ingredients, it's much cheaper than junk food.

There are many, many factors when you have an eating disorder and in my case, being morbidly obese, is as much as eating disorder as anorexia or bulimia. The reasons and outcomes are polar opposites but there are common factors.

@Crunchymum I absolutely believe this and that’s why in my first post I differentiated between obese (or morbidly obese) people and the majority who are overweight.

Serious obesity is an eating disorder or an addiction problem. I think we ought to approach it differently.

Yes, as PP said, why do we have so many treats? Surely by definition a treat is something you have rarely, not several times every day/week.

I hate all the talk of treats and good and bad foods.

After putting on a stone after the loss of my Mam I tried Noom. Stopped when it suggested a chocolate as an evening snack because it was 'saving the best till last'.

I pretty much only eat "healthy" food 99% of the time. Lots of veg, very little meat, no dairy, no processed foods, and make everything from scratch. I'm still about a stone overweight. I eat big portions. I lose weight if I eat less and put it on if I eat more. I don't think the types of food are as much of a problem as portion control and learning to know when we're full.

It’s true that it’s socially acceptable to be overweight here in a way that just isn’t true for other countries. Being fat in Japan is about as acceptable as punching kittens here, and they make no bones about pointing it out. The early Jilly Cooper novels are full of women being horrified when they reach 10 stone.

I also think the cost of food is a red herring for most people - the U.K. spends some of the lowest proportion of its income on food.

Eating disorders due to trauma etc will always be difficult to solve. But not so for the majority of overweight people who just eat more than they need.

You have to take some kind of responsibility for yourself and not just blame everyone around you.

Eating healthy is NOT expensive. Vegetables are some of the cheapest things in the supermarket. I was on benefits for 4 years with young DS and we ate healthy, I have always cooked meals from scratch. Carrots, broccoli, apples, bananas are all cheap.

Being morbidly obese isn't an eating disorder. What leads to it may be. But often it isn't.

Agreed on treats. I started dropping weight the moment I realised that I and many others have about 7 treats so every day we have some treat and it basically stops being a treat then.
If you have it routinely it's not a treat imo. So now I have a treat 1x a week and alternate them. So one week it's wings, next week it's my fave patisserie pasty etc. Not that Monday is cake, Tue wings, wed Maccies, Thursday bar of chocolate and so on...

For everyone saying healthier food is less expensive, it’s not that simple - the price of food per calorie in the UK is higher for healthier food than for less healthy food. So although fresh veg is cheaper than say a ready meal, per calorie it’s not. Plus add in the convenience factor and you can see how temping it is to make unhealthy choices.

It’s true that it’s socially acceptable to be overweight here in a way that just isn’t true for other countries.

Not sure that it is to be honest. Some people are very rude to overweight people here, employers think they are lazy. We're probably better than some countries, but I think the 'acceptance' of it is a lie. People say they think fat is beautiful and is just curvy, but they don't really mean it. They'll still be judging you. If it was accepted more, it would be easier for bigger people to find clothes, to fit in seats on trains and planes, they wouldn't be judged at job interviews or called fatty in the streets.

Well back in the old days say pre- 1960s you simply couldn’t get processed crap.
And now you can and we have an obesity problem.
All those people that are saying it’s just down to the individual- are you saying that people back then were inherently “better” and less “lazy”

Also I love the concept of us having free will, on a small level we do, and some people are clever enough to go against the grain and think for themselves. But most aren’t. And that’s exactly how our capitalist driven big business society would like us to remain.

Everything is about money and how much can be made from individuals, wether it be from cigarettes- processed food- prisons - medical procedures.

I weigh more than I would like to. My issue is me - I choose to and enjoy eating food that I know is bad for me. It’s nobody else’s fault as far as I’m concerned (maybe my husband 🤣)

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All those people that are saying it’s just down to the individual- are you saying that people back then were inherently “better” and less “lazy”

Exactly this, are people actually saying they believe some nationalities have less willpower than others.

People need to take responsibility for their lifestyles and choices. Most people with obesity issues aren’t overweight due to processed food, eaten in moderation. They are people who eat too much. Simple as that. I speak as someone who has yo yo’d From slim to overweight for years. I love food that really isn’t good for me, and dislike most fruits and vegetables, and just can’t get excited by a salad. Some weeks I feel fed up and over eat, but I own it and hold myself responsible for my choices.

We really need to differentiate between healthy food and diets that make you overweight. Lots of people on this thread are conflating the two.

Hommous is not unhealthy. However, it is high in calories so too much of it is potentially going to impact your weight. Understanding the importance of balance in meals of all things, including fat and sugar, is key. And actually, for all the comments on here about how you'd have to live under a rock not to know how to eat well, I'm not sure that's entirely true. Not least because eating healthily AND in a way that doesn't lead to weight gain has changed.

We used to have, for example, pototoes AND rice - eg if mum cooked a stew, stew included potatoes and was served with rice. I'd never do that now. But then, growing up, we spent a LOT more time running around, doing formal sports at school, swimming etc. Also, I suspect the portion sizes were reasonable.

We are trying to get on top of DS' weight. I limit things like spaghetti bolognaise - I make it with loads of veggies and lentils and it's very nutritious. BUT, it's also very high calorie and seems to require larger plates of spaghetti. So we have it, but not weekly. Instead, we are eating more food with reasonable portions of rice/potatoes, meat/chicken/fish and large portions of vegetables and salad.

@Blackandwhitehorse yes, per calorie

But the poor obese can still afford to overeat (eg eat 5000 cals instead of 2000), so they don’t struggle to the extent they can’t afford enough calories

The 60% overweight/obese are not all too poor to eat, neither are they all victims of eating disorders.

These kind of threads are damaging as they make obesity seem unavoidable and acceptable

Be any weight, eat what you like, but don’t say 60% of the population are too poor to eat better, or have a disorder. SOME are. SOME are ill and on meds, SOME are money poor and time poor or physically unable to get better food (living in b&bs, can’t afford electric, disabled or poorly etc). SOME.

But this is then extrapolated to ALL obese people being victims of poverty and disorders and that is simply not true. Though many are grateful to threads like this for perpetuating that myth, thus absolving them from individual responsibility

Certainly the junk food plays a part in people getting overweight but also people just seem to eat too often, they eat so often they don't know if they are hungry or not. Your body only needs you to eat every few hours, not constantly grazing

@Pikachubaby absolutely agree with it.

@Pikachubaby yes but unhealthy convenient food then becomes the easier option. Studies actually show our environment affects our health, lots of research out there. It’s easier to blame individual choices but it’s misleading. Do some reading, there is lots out there around social inequalities in health, and how the environment affects the population’s health as a whole. How do you explain some generations or countries being healthier than others? It’s a much much more complex issue than individual choice.

Yes I think a lot of people have got onto the argument here about the cost of food, that's not something I mentioned in my original post. It's the availability and promotion of highly refined processed food. I didn't say it is cheaper or more expensive to eat healthy. If you look at fast food, it is very expensive, £20 or £30 for one meal which could buy a lot of fruit or veg.

What I'm saying is, once you just walk past the fresh produce aisle of the supermarket, you walk into a maze of processed food, the majority of which, if you it hold up, pound for pound with home cooked food, it will make you fat. It will make you fat because it is more likely to activate dopamine production (like other addictions do) so you will crave more of that food. They make it addictive through advanced flavour technology. It will make you fat because you don't have to eat as much of it, it has added sugar, added salt, added oils, a calorie bomb, it often contains zero roughage. You don't get addicted to eating apples or cucumbers, nature didn't create it that way.

Our grandparents, or great grandparents even, had no need for supermarkets, shopping involved simply a greengrocer, a butcher, a baker, perhaps a small grocery shop where they could buy flour to make their own treats at home. Your money would have served the local economy through keeping these small businesses open.

Supermarkets are not there for choice either, even if you look at the non food aisles, your money is going primarily to Unilever, j&j, proctor and gamble, pz cussons. The same goes for the grocery aisles, your money only goes to a few multi billion pound global companies under the guise of so many brands (that have no issue with selling the types of food more likely to make you fat).

And if you look at the percentages of the population that are now even just overweight compared to say 50 years ago, are you really saying it's because all those people are just lazy, no self control, uneducated? Really? These hugely successful global companies who also often control arms of big agriculture and big pharma, have zero responsibility?