To think 'big food' industry is to blame for the obesity epidemic, not individuals?

[aintnothinbutagstring]

When I read on MN, and when I talk to people IRL, there's an underlying attitude to obesity that it is all down to willpower, or lack of, and individual choice over whether to be fat or thin. If we all tried a little harder and were disciplined, everyone could be their ideal weight.

I recently got on to reading some books on processed food, they are not new concepts, the ideas have been around a while. Lots of scientists and MDs from the US, where the obesity epidemic is a little further down the road than in the UK, have written about the addictive nature of processed food, books such as 'Wheat Belly', 'The Dorito Effect', Robert Lustig has done many talks on it. In the UK, Joanna Blythman has wrote quite a bit on the UK food industry.

Some have linked processed food to activating dopamine receptors in the brain so it works like other addictions. Yet cannot escape it once we walk into a supermarket, most of what is for sale there is very highly processed food. It's all sugar, salt, wheat, the bad fats (processed oils like rapeseed, not natural fats which are healthy). Flavours created by amazing scientists so you'd rather eat the flavour chemicals than the actual food.

Yet we are telling obese people, some of whom may be using food addiction to deal with past trauma, lifestyle stress etc, 'it is your choice, what you eat, you need to try harder, have more self respect, more willpower'.

I see obese people now as 'you are a victim of 'big food', the companies (only a handful of global billion pound companies) that produce and cleverly advertise and use supermarkets to sell this highly refined, highly addictive processed food'. If they were educated and told it's not their fault, they might decide they don't want to play the 'big food' game anymore.

Obesity is never a bigger problem than hunger
What I said was that it was a more prevalent problem, which it is. I know that hunger is a more serious problem but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be able to discuss other issues as well. It is ridiculous to suggest that a thread about obesity is "painful" because other problems exist alongside it. Most of MN consists of far more trivial problems than obesity or hunger.

And no I will continue saying and posting what I want and where I want.
I'm not stopping you. I can't make you not post on a thread or start another one. I just disagree with your assertion that the discussion of obesity is painful. By all means, carry on posting.

Do you enjoy telling BAME people what they can't and cannot do?
I guess I'm supposed to infer from this that you are BAME? I'm not sure what that's got to do with anything, frankly.

The fact you consider hunger, poverty and BAME matters virtue signalling says a lot about you.
I consider you coming onto a thread where posters are discussing a serious issue and you dismissing it, being hyperbolic enough to call it "painful" in the process, because you seem to think there are more worthy discussions to be had virtue signalling. That has nothing to do with BAME.
The demographic most affected by obesity in the UK is Black Carribbean, I believe. The poorest in the UK are the most likely to be obese. There are people across the world who, though having excess calorific intake, are still malnourished and their health suffers as a result.
But sure, forget them completely.

*You mean the same way you have forgotten the hunger in Yemen, Ethiopia and other BAME countries?

No I wouldn't never be able to do that, but that's white privilege. Constantly placing BAME issues out of mind and discussions.*

This may come as a surprise to you but I'm not white. My mother is Ghanaian, I still have a lot of family over there, though I was born in the UK. I donate to several charities focussing on aid in Yemen and in Syria. I teach in a deprived area, several of my students are asylum seekers from various countries. I'm could probably do more, I'm not pretending to be a saint here.
However, none of that was relevant on a thread about obesity. You have made assumptions that, because I don't agree with you, I'm some sort of bastion of white privilege. In fact, I disagree with you because I have the capacity to be invested in more than one issue, not because of the colour of my skin.

Obesity is often a sign of malnutrition and it is usually more prevalent in the poorer stratas of society.

Immigrantsong

So according to you we should only ever talk about famine, never obesity as that is white privilege?

I live in Mexico where over 50% of the population are living in poverty and our epidemiologist is very concerned about obesity.

In the USA, the poor blacks are often tremendously obese because they cannot access decent food. But this is all white privilege?

I don't know you and you don't know me. But you surely must understand how triggering conversations around obesity are for anyone that has lived through and seen hunger.

Well here's an idea. Why not hide the thread instead of taking it off on a tangent?

It's not like the title isn't clear...

@bitofasleuth

Pre-cut fruit and veg in bags

Why do people buy that stuff? It is so much more expensive.

The fruit is often free as part of a meal deal. People don't want to cut their own fruit and put them in a tupperware to carry around and these can be bought when out. You might not approve, but it's better than a Mars bar. I actually think more healthy fast food is part of the solution. Some of us are just not going to cook everything from scratch.

"I told her I wasn't on a diet... she didn't really believe me."

Everyone is on a diet of some sort in that they eat in a certain way. You could have explained to her how you regulate your eating if you do do that.

I think humans are naturally addicts and now that cigarettes and alcohol are no longer socially acceptable during the day people moved on to food. Pubs closed down and fast food and Starbucks opened up and we replaced one addiction with another.

I find the OP rather patronising. Fat people aren't thick, we’re aware that processed food isn’t good for us. We know how to lose weight-eat less, move more, although often it isn’t that simple, there may be mental health issues, addiction issues, whatever. While it’s literally a piece of cake to put on weight, it’s bloody hard work to lose that extra stone, it takes organisation, dedication, planning and effort. Let’s not blame the big food industries or how come we’re not all overweight? Way too simplistic.

I don't think it's patronising unless I'm reading it wrong.

The cigarette companies marketed their food and made them as addictive as possible but not everyone became addicted. Some people are not naturally as easily addicted as others. And she's talking about obesity which is a different problem entirely to trying to shift an extra stone.

You may as well say not to blame the cigarette companies.

I don't think it's really down to the food industry, though they certainly exacerbate the problem. Nor can we really blame the individual (in the sense of it being down to each one of them being lazy, greedy or lacking in willower). If anything, it's down to human nature.

We are 'programmed' with a drive to seek out and eat high calorie food to keep us alive. Presumably for the same reason, we are also programmed not to want to use up loads of valuable calories doing unnecessary exercise. Some people (probably due to a combination of good genes, maybe a good gut biome and metabolism and habits instilled early on) are better at overriding that programming than others. But that doesn't mean the rest are weak and self-indulgent. Add to that a society that simultaneously fetishises slimness and food, and it's no wonder we have an obesity problem while spending gazillions on the diet industry.

Ultimately we choose what to put in our mouths so I don't see the food industry as to blame except in specific circumstances eg if you produce a "ready meal" designed for one person it should have the appropriate amount of calories for a main meal and be nutritionally balanced, nothing wrong with chocolate bars but if they are designed for single serving then calories should be capped at maybe 250, same with single serve crisps maybe 150 for them. All places selling takeaway lunches should have fruit available ideally that sort of thing. If I choose to buy a family sized tub of ice cream or 200g multi serve chocolate bar and eat the lot, that's down to me!

Getting fresh food into shops in poor areas is important but the problem is cultural rather than about money, in predominantly Asian poor communities there's lots of cheap fresh vegetables because the shops know they will sell. (Veggie curry and daal are cheap and nutritious)

" Loads of people could afford smoking for example, or drinking on a daily basis, yet they don’t do that.

Anti-smoking campaigns are very visual and heavily funded. "

And when they weren't, lots more people smoked. It was really widespread in the 70s from what I understand. I think the ban on smoking in public places also helped.

I think they have a large part to play. They certainly shove sugar in everything, even if it doesn't need it.

There's lots of factors. I dont think it's as simple as "fat people are lazy".

"If you surround yourself with people that don’t overeat and don’t encourage you to it really helps."

This. I'm convinced being overweight is contagious. Not in the same was as coronavirus is contagious but still contagious.

Yes I agree @lazylinguist Miriam Margoyles has a great quote on this - “The fashion industry compels us to be skinny, the food industry compels us to be fat. We are treated like a punchball between those two industries for money. That’s what capitalism does,”

"They don't understand nutrition so think children should eat nuggets chips and baked beans.thats how the cycle perpetuates."

I would say that my parents do understand nutrition, but still the above is what we used to eat most days. Sunday lunch had more veggies. It's more than just education.
I know quite a bit about nutrition, but unlike you I eat supermarket bread. Life's too short to make your own.

"There should be a national "Great British" diet (lose weight, with a few variations inc low carb, low calorie) and a national menu (maintain weight)."

How many calories you need varies by person. It's not one size fits all. if a 5ft1 woman goes into one of these places and has a diet meal designed for the average person, men and women combined, it will be too much food for her.

But lighter options should be available in restaurants and takeaways, I agree with that. I go for the filet o fish in McDonalds, but it's not very filling and there's no point having a salad in a place like that.

"in predominantly Asian poor communities there's lots of cheap fresh vegetables because the shops know they will sell. (Veggie curry and daal are cheap and nutritious)"

That's interesting because I was told that south Asians here eat pretty badly and that the combination of genetics and lifestyle was to blame for high blood pressure and similar problems that make them more vulnerable to Covid complications.

"Let’s not blame the big food industries or how come we’re not all overweight?"

Well, the majority is. A lot of the people who aren't have to make a conscious effort not to be.