to wonder if 7 yr old DD should be reading Jacqueline Wilson?

[FakeTalesOfSanFrancisco]

I am separated from my DC father. He didn't see them due to distance throughout lockdown, until about six weeks ago. Just for clarity, he usually has them every other weekend in normal circumstances. He has now seen the DC twice in the past six weeks.

7 year old DD is very bright and an advanced reader, though I've had conversations with her teachers about her comprehension ability. I don't think she is as emotionally mature as some of her friends.

Her behaviour since she has come back from her dad's the first time has been really challenging. Refusing to do any schoolwork, being aggressive at times, just generally difficult, which I've tried to deal with as calmly as possible.

She came out with a phrase 'tough titties with knobs on'- not something she has ever heard from me. Eventually she told me that she read it in 'The Suitcase Kid' by Jacqueline Wilson, which she read at her dad's. From having a quick look on mnet, it looks like the word 'slut' also appears in this book. The books is about a girl unhappy with her parent's divorce. The girl in question is 10- a lot older than 7, nearly 8.

I don't think the book is suitable for a 7 year old in any circumstances but especially not ours- to put it simply the separation hasn't exactly been easy. AIBU to think she shouldn't have been given this to read?

Ex lives with his parents and it's possible that it was his mum that bought it.

Just a different experience- I read this book when my parents separated and found it extremely upsetting and unsettling. Could explain some of her behaviour. It made me very scared about the future and what was going to happen. All fine now of course, but you might be wise to read it yourself and reassure her some things that happen in the book won’t happen to her

@AnneOfQueenSables

You're bringing the other issues to this and that's the problem. I don't think reading JW will harm your DD or upset her. It's much more likely than there are issues she is struggling with and she's masking, it's a good idea to give her an outlet and teach her that it's ok to be angry and upset. Even if you felt she dealt with the divorce well 2 years ago, she's older now, she grew up in an abusive household, it will take time for her to process everything that has happened to her. Rather than turning JW books into yet another flashpoint, buy a copy of the book and read it with her, not to pointscore and criticise but to support her finding words that are fun or that shock, and as an access point to chat about her emotions. You sound very invested in the view that your DD is fine with the separation. That investment doesn't necessarily help your DD.

@AnneOfQueenSables I've had many conversations with my DC especially DD as she's older about the divorce. I've not been 'invested' in the idea that she has been fine with it- I've carefully watched her behaviour all along and been there to discuss and answer any of her questions. I've spoken to her schoolteachers about it and asked for additional support in school and they have facilitated her being able to speak to someone every two weeks. They tried to arrange it for the week following her visit to her dad's as that is when any issues tend to come out. Time and time I have tried to sensitively talk to her but not push. She has been a happy, generally well behaved child ever since the separation and despite being asked if she wants to talk about it she rarely does. I am doing my bloody best despite having a dickhead of an ex who doesn't care of the effect of his words. It's fucking impossible.

@whattimeisitrightnow

*I wonder this all the time. I worry about him damaging them emotionally. Is it really likely I would have a case to stop him seeing them?

I don't want to do that to them either. What an idiot he is. Why on earth he can't act like a responsible adult is beyond me.*

I think that's a valid worry, given the history. I would keep doing what you're doing (explaining to them that both parents still love them etc.) and deal with each ex-related problem as it comes. As they get older, they may well become wise to his manipulations and choose to see less of him. Regardless, they'll always have a safe home with you. I wouldn't try to stop him seeing them unless they become particularly distressed by something he says/does: not because I don't think the low-level, subtle stuff is also damaging, but because it might be difficult for you to argue your case with that.

Thankyou @whattimeisitrightnow that's been my feelings on it. I've actually tried to do all I can to minimise the damage to them because despite him being a twat, stopping contact isn't going to help them either.

Read the book. It’s the best way to judge if it’s ok for your child. That way you get the whole rather than snippets out of context.

I’m sorry to say it because you’re dealing with enough but it doesn’t sound like she’s coping well.

“Her behaviour since she has come back from her dad's the first time has been really challenging. Refusing to do any schoolwork, being aggressive at times, just generally difficult, which I've tried to deal with as calmly as possible.“

Is it possible that your experiences with your ex in terms of how controlling and manipulative he is are perhaps influencing how you are contextualising the book? That’s not to say you’re wrong in terms of why he gave it, but censoring and limiting reading options would only reinforce his rhetoric. I don’t agree with making book choices for children, and it may be counterproductive in your case. It may be best to simply equip her to make decisions around books, to ask you questions, to know she can put a book down if it makes her uncomfortable. You can also help her gain skills to deal with that discomfort, which are great skills to have and will help improve her emotional maturity.

I remember The Suitcase Kid. I was about 6 or 7 when I read it, and while my parents never divorced and I never even heard so much of an argument, I empathized greatly with Andy. Children often have great empathy skills naturally, and allowing them to foster them in situations that don’t precisely mirror their own is great practice at both maintaining them and contextualising their own experiences. So, she may be more positive about things after reading that. I also loved Radish!

@AuntyPasta well I'm going to be discussing it with her father because something has clearly happened since she first saw him in lockdown as prior to this everything had been continuing as it had done previously. She was coping well. We've worked hard in lockdown to continue with homeschooling and she was doing fantastic. Happy and generally well behaved.

I've been hearing things to the tune of 'you're so bossy', 'daddy doesn't make me do schoolwork' etc etc. As well as other things that I think have come from the books. I will get some Jacqueline Wilson to read myself.

David walliams books are vile. Full of really lazy, offensive stereotypes and mean, unpleasant 'humour'

@whattimeisitrightnow I'd be interested in that thread!

For those who like Jacqueline Wilson is Love Lessons a bit of an anomaly? Obviously DD is a way too young for this anyway but that book sounds so awful it just makes me wonder about the rest of her writing. The teacher keeps his job whilst the girl gets expelled?! I mean what kind of message is that?!

I've never read her books so I don't know. I don't believe in censoring things either and am pretty liberal. But am I wrong to question its suitability especially in our circumstances?

Leaving aside the issues with your DH which sound horrendous and focussing on the original question - I wouldn’t try and censor what a child reads in this way. I wouldn’t want a child looking at pornographic literature or books that look at the facts of genocide or sexual perversions perhaps but apart from that I would let them read what they want particularly if it’s a children’s book. They will understand what they understand and anything too far beyond them will just pass them by.

This policy might well provoke some awkward questions or lead to some unwanted language but you can handle these as they arise and it’s all learning. Restricting her reading to books that only touch on what you think is familiar to her almost defeats the purpose of reading. It’s meant to be a window into other worlds as well as a reflection of our own.

I can remember reading the St Clares stories when I was young (definitely not a reflection of our WC Irish life) and deciding I was going to have a temper like one of the twins! Luckily for my poor mum I then read What Katy Did and switched to emulating the saintly post accident Katy. I’m currently reading a biography of the Mitford sisters so I think this week I will be eccentric and autocratic.

I didn't say you weren't doing your best and I wasn't excusing your ex but he isn't on here posting.
I've given you advice about how I think you should deal with the book and why I think it's important to accept that your DD's feelings about what happened may change with time.
I grew up in an abusive household. A mother who said it was ok to be angry, to be sad, to change your mind about how you were coping - would have been very helpful. Especially since society is so invested in girls not being angry or sad.

@AnneOfQueenSables what makes you think I haven't told her those things? She's seen me crying- I've told her many times it's ok to be sad, angry, unhappy, scared. I've told her (and repeated it in the past few days) that I know it's not been easy for her. That if she wants to ask me about the divorce she can. A few days ago she asked why we had separated and I explained it as age appropriately as possible. But tried to reassure her that we both love her and she will continue to see us both. That I'm always there for her and she can ask me anything.

I don't know what else I can do .

I used to read Jacqueline Wilson when I was a kid. My favourites were girls in love, out late and under pressure.

But there is no way I would allow any of my children too. Theres a lot of snogging, talking to parents badly and inappropriately. Slag and slut mentioned and just not really good for kids at all.
Even a book my 12 year old picked up in Asda was talking about children discussing their parents going off with another man. Hardly child appropriate literature! He gave it back to me and didn't want to read it anymore!!!!

@FakeTalesOfSanFrancisco it sounds like an anomaly from my experience. JW’s books aren’t straightforward morality tales; the bad characters don’t always get their comeuppance and the good characters still have to go through hardship and unfair experiences. But I don’t recall any of the others making me uncomfortable about the message behind it.

There are others which take a better approach to adult / child relationships. In the Girls in Love series for example one of the characters has a crush on her teacher and turns up at his house trying to make a move on him. He turns her down and explains why the relationship would be inappropriate in a firm-but-kind way, and makes sure the girl gets home safely. In The Illustrated Mum, the girl tracks down her long lost father and there’s a good lesson about parents who show up for you vs Disney dads.

Love Lessons is definitely an anomaly, and JW writes for different ages so it is worth checking. There are a few books, such as the worry website, that are for much younger children. I also grew up on JW books, and so read Love Lessons when I was around 14 - if I remember correctly, it came with a note/sticker on the cover when it was first published that it was for ages 14+, so trying to be clear that younger readers should steer clear.

Personally, I think if she is reading it, she is interested/enjoying it for whatever reason (whether that be connected to feelings on your divorce, or just the writing and story) and it would be better to read the book as well, and have a chat about how she feels about it and if anything worried her, than take the book away or stop her reading similar books by JW.

You keep repeating the same thing. 'For a 7 year old though?' JW has books for your kids age group, using google will help you get there.

I think my point was is JW the best thing for a 7 year old who isn't as emotionally developed as her peers? If she were 9 or 10- the age of the character in the book I'm referring to- then I might feel different- the themes may be too mature for her and therefore she can't handle it appropriately. Rather than support her I'm worried it will upset her.

I mean she's an advanced reader and could read my Philippa Gregory books, or Bridget Jones Diary. Doesn't mean they're suitable though does it. JW May be a children's author but I'm not sure if it's suitable. It's interesting to see the different perspectives here.

@ErickBroch I've never been interested in buying JW for her though so I've not looked up the suitability. I'd have hoped her father would have done.

@FakeTalesOfSanFrancisco ok well now you know... you can look and speak to her dad. There were some holiday based ones that are for that age and then some are definitely 13+. I loved her books as a kid but agree with pp's that Love Lessons is something I wouldn't want any kid of any age reading to be honest.

I hated going to my Dad's when my parents split up. It was shit. It wasn't that it was unfair or awful or anything but deep down I was just really really sad. All i wanted was for my parents to get back together again.

She's having to adjust to a very different story/narrative about her life vs the one she grew up with and has known since she was born.

She's probably angry at how life has got out of her control. She wants something she can't have anymore that she completely believed and trusted in, until it was gone. She's probably angry with both of you for creating upheaval and havoc in her life. Allow her to get it out in healthy ways if you can and it sounds like you're doing really well on that front.

I'm not sure the book has much to do with it. The words that she's chosen from it are an avenue through which her pain is being channelled. I'd sit with her and give her a hug and tell her how deeply loved she is and how sorry you are that things are different now but that eventually she'll find a way to feel at peace again. All she really needs to know is that she's loved. I'm sure you're doing this in spades. It just takes time. Time is a great healer.

When I was at my Dad's I had to keep a front on all the time. It was exhausting. When I got home I was challenging my Mum said. The first week was needed to decharge. Then it was fine again.

It sounds like you’re doing everything possible to help her.

well I'm going to be discussing it with her father
Despite lots of advice about books, about suitability, about reading the book with her, you're determined that one book has impacted your DD's behaviour rather than it being impacted by hormones, age, the separation, the abusive relationship between you and your ex.
Your DD is going to be challenging. She's not always going to be 'happy, coping well' . It's as much part of development as a toddler learning to walk. You say that you talk to her about being allowed to be unhappy and angry but the first time she shows challenging behaviour, you want to blame a book.
I hope for your DCs' sake, you find some peace with how you manage all this.

I loved the JW books when I was younger, I've read pretty much all of them I think.
Love Lessons is definitely an anomaly, I'm not sure what she was thinking with that one! And the Girls In Love series is definitely not for a 7 year old, but you'll find a lot of her books, whilst covering hard subjects, do so in a decent manner. I remember Double Act being one of my favourites for years.

Too young in my opinion. My daughter agreed they were affecting her emotions and behaviour and didn't read them until early teens. I have very mixed feelings about JW.