to wonder if 7 yr old DD should be reading Jacqueline Wilson?

[FakeTalesOfSanFrancisco]

I am separated from my DC father. He didn't see them due to distance throughout lockdown, until about six weeks ago. Just for clarity, he usually has them every other weekend in normal circumstances. He has now seen the DC twice in the past six weeks.

7 year old DD is very bright and an advanced reader, though I've had conversations with her teachers about her comprehension ability. I don't think she is as emotionally mature as some of her friends.

Her behaviour since she has come back from her dad's the first time has been really challenging. Refusing to do any schoolwork, being aggressive at times, just generally difficult, which I've tried to deal with as calmly as possible.

She came out with a phrase 'tough titties with knobs on'- not something she has ever heard from me. Eventually she told me that she read it in 'The Suitcase Kid' by Jacqueline Wilson, which she read at her dad's. From having a quick look on mnet, it looks like the word 'slut' also appears in this book. The books is about a girl unhappy with her parent's divorce. The girl in question is 10- a lot older than 7, nearly 8.

I don't think the book is suitable for a 7 year old in any circumstances but especially not ours- to put it simply the separation hasn't exactly been easy. AIBU to think she shouldn't have been given this to read?

Ex lives with his parents and it's possible that it was his mum that bought it.

The suitcase kid was one of the first JW books I read, my mum bought it for me for my seventh birthday as I distinctly remember taking it in to my year 3 class. Like your daughter, I was a very advanced reader and devoured books. I read (and still have) all of the books that she published in the late 90s and I really admire her as an author due to the way she deals with challenging issues that kids will likely be dealing with - or if they're not personally then they will know someone who is. I'd much rather my child be reading about "real life" and asking questions about what they've read/seen than reading about some fantasy world, even if they are "only" seven.

I think JW is a good author .My DD loved her books at around 8 or 9 ,so maybe just a little bit older .That said I think it really just depends on the child TBH.I love EB as a child and The FF series especially .Having lost my DF and as an only child in London .I loved delving into their adventures and felt I was there with them on a Ginger Beer ,Sandwiches picnic .or one of their delicious meals at Aunt Fannys! JW is of course much more contemporary ,but times change and I doubt she will suffer any damage as a soon to be 8 year old!

@FakeTalesOfSanFrancisco I am sure you have done everything you can to protect your DC. You sound like a resilient and loving parent and I wasn't meaning to criticise at all. I was in a similar situation and split with my ex-H when the DC were 1 and 3 so I do understand some of what you're going through. I may well be projecting my own experience onto you, but my DC and especially the youngest who has no memory of his parents living together, seem to have more questions and more feelings about the split as he's got older and better able to understand and question things (he's 9 now). I feel I've also done everything I can to shield my DC and that on the whole they're happy, well-adjusted and doing well at school prior to lockdown. However, I still think the split has had an ongoing impact on them.

If your ex is saying the sorts of things you mention to your DC, that might be difficult for them, regardless of the amazing job you're doing to mitigate it.

Perhaps the book has brought things up for your daughter, or perhaps it is too old for her, I don't know. Or it could be the huge disruption we're all going through with corona, or a combination of all those things. Either way, it sounds like you're there for them and that's the main thing.

I'm a huge fan of Jacqueline Wilson.
At her age she could read The Mum Minder, Best Friends, Sleepovers, to name several.
Some would not be suitable. The illustrated Mum, Secrets, The Dustbin Baby, Vicky Angel, again to name a few.
I was about her age when I began reading JW, as my older sister did. A
I borrowed her books and admittedly I did not understand The Dustbin Baby one bit, but when I read it as a teenager I realised it is a challenging read (tw: suicide, for example).
The Suitcase KId is on the fence really..the girl in there is very sad and it does not paint a very nice picture of split families.
I remember JW saying that at one of her book talks, a dad asked her why her books were always negative about the dad's. Tbh that is true.

My DD doesn't like JW books (she's 9), she finds them too dark and much prefers her non-fiction (horrible histories etc) anyway. She read a few when she was 7-8 because her BFF is a major JW fan but she never got on with them. She much preferred the easy-to-enjoy Daisy books at that age.

To add, we had a slightly difficult separation too and lots of the themes (step parents etc) were too much for my DD and probably still would be at 9.

@ChickenDrumstick yes: a relationship between a somewhat sheltered, previously home-schooled teenaged female student, who comes from an abusive household, and her male teacher. She becomes his 'favourite' pupil and even babysits for his children (yeah...) and they share some 'stolen kisses'. Then it all comes out, the teacher KEEPS HIS JOB AND THE STUDENT GETS KICKED OUT OF THE SCHOOL!!! Their relationship never becomes sexual, either, when it absolutely would have been in real life, so it really does seem like a cute little romance - like a star-crossed lovers thing.

It's so bizarre and JW really missed the mark with that one. It's a shame, too, because there's an abusive father in that book who controls his family completely with anger rather than outright violence (iirc) and it's quite well done.

Her reading the book really isn't the issue is it? It's him allowing/encouraging it

I think you need to get some advice as to whether it is actually in the kids best interest to see him. If he's going to use them to get at you, it's really not. Not because it's getting at you, but because if the emotional damage he will do to them and their relationship with you. I'd focus on that myself.

@whattimeisitrightnow yes I remember that one! I was surprised how the girl was treated like the problem. It was not good.

I actually think your ex has unwittingly done you a favour here, I have to deal with an ex that is not a fantastic parent for my dc1 and seeing and reading about different situations which makes their own seem more normal is a very very good thing.

I imagine she might be copying some of the language but all you need to do is say that if she wants to continue reading the books that’s she mustn’t copy the cheeky or bad language.

I love Jacqueline Wilson for making books about tough subjects, she is very empathetic

@Lianarose sorry I didn't mean to come across as snippy with that! I think you're right, it's impossible for them not to be affected at all by a separation- that's belittling their experiences and emotional intelligence to suggest it. And I'm sure as they get older they're bound to have questions.

I guess what I meant was, my DD is not struggling seemingly like the girl in the story. Of course the divorce isn't easy but she has been happy, doing well at school- no difference in behaviour to before the separation. Same goes for my DS who is younger. They've done really well- which is why I've been so disgusted, frankly, with ex, for saying such inappropriate things to them. He should be glad they are doing well and accepted the divorce; to try and manipulate them by saying 'mummy sent me away' is just completely cruel to his own DC.

That's why I wondered about the book- another way to manipulate. I can see for an older child with more emotional maturity, and who has been struggling with a divorce- I can see how it could be helpful and empowering. But for a 7 year old who isn't as emotionally advanced as some of her peers, and who has coped with the divorce well- I don't think it's appropriate. Children love to imitate things from what they read and see, and she seems to be imitating the character. It just makes me think it could plant the seed of thinking there is something wrong, when she didn't seem to think so before.

[quote whattimeisitrightnow]@ChickenDrumstick yes: a relationship between a somewhat sheltered, previously home-schooled teenaged female student, who comes from an abusive household, and her male teacher. She becomes his 'favourite' pupil and even babysits for his children (yeah...) and they share some 'stolen kisses'. Then it all comes out, the teacher KEEPS HIS JOB AND THE STUDENT GETS KICKED OUT OF THE SCHOOL!!! Their relationship never becomes sexual, either, when it absolutely would have been in real life, so it really does seem like a cute little romance - like a star-crossed lovers thing.

It's so bizarre and JW really missed the mark with that one. It's a shame, too, because there's an abusive father in that book who controls his family completely with anger rather than outright violence (iirc) and it's quite well done.[/quote]
Oh dear. I think it’s so important that we let children deal with difficult topics in books (I want Asking For It to be on the curriculum for teenagers, SUCH a powerful book), but that does not sound ideal. I recall Melvin Burgess dealt with it in one of his and the male student was a bit of a mess in it and the teacher got her dues in one way or another and even that was not handled particularly well.

Sorry OP, have sort of hijacked your thread.

There are so many lovely books for children o dont see why they need to read such depressing bilge

I think this is quite an important point; not all children have lovely lives, and very few children have lives which aren’t touched by sadness at one time or another. Many children face illness, divorce, loss of a parent, bullying, homelessness, poverty, eating disorders etc. And even if a child doesn’t face those things, they will likely know someone who has. I think it can be hugely helpful for children to read books which explore those themes, particularly as JW is so careful to take an empathetic approach which doesn’t hold children responsible for the hardships they face, and which shows kids that there are ways to move past difficult and disruptive events and find happiness anyway.

I don’t think children benefit from exclusively consuming media that sanitises the world. They have to live in the real one, so I don’t see anything wrong with some of their reading material reflecting that.

Mine is a similar age - and I let her read JW - but I'm selective about which ones are available to her as I know they vary according to the age they're pitched at.

@ChickenDrumstick I read a bit about Love Lessons and was shocked tbh!

(I should say I never read Love Lessons and it does sound like it massively missed the mark - I think that’s quite unusual for JW, but it doesn’t sound like the subject was well handled)

Which JW books would you recommend for a fairly sensitive 7yr old?

OP I can recall the suitcase kid and in the end the protagonist’s parents don’t get back together and she comes to terms with this and her two families. I don’t think it makes divorce a bad thing - the protagonist struggles during, but it works out in the end that she is settled.

I read this 20 years ago so I could be misremembering!

@IncrediblySadToo

Her reading the book really isn't the issue is it? It's him allowing/encouraging it

I think you need to get some advice as to whether it is actually in the kids best interest to see him. If he's going to use them to get at you, it's really not. Not because it's getting at you, but because if the emotional damage he will do to them and their relationship with you. I'd focus on that myself.

@IncrediblySadToo I wonder this all the time. I worry about him damaging them emotionally. Is it really likely I would have a case to stop him seeing them?

I don't want to do that to them either. What an idiot he is. Why on earth he can't act like a responsible adult is beyond me.

You're bringing the other issues to this and that's the problem. I don't think reading JW will harm your DD or upset her. It's much more likely than there are issues she is struggling with and she's masking, it's a good idea to give her an outlet and teach her that it's ok to be angry and upset.
Even if you felt she dealt with the divorce well 2 years ago, she's older now, she grew up in an abusive household, it will take time for her to process everything that has happened to her.
Rather than turning JW books into yet another flashpoint, buy a copy of the book and read it with her, not to pointscore and criticise but to support her finding words that are fun or that shock, and as an access point to chat about her emotions. You sound very invested in the view that your DD is fine with the separation. That investment doesn't necessarily help your DD.

My too oldest DDs both love JW. The oldest is almost 17 and no longer reads but my 12yr old still does. There is different books from her for different age brackets so once you know the age suitability they should be fine to read

My children were reading jw at this age they had both heard worse swear words at primary school. You're over thinking it and living in an Enid Blyton fantasy of modern childhood. Surely if she struggles with something you could talk about it?

*I wonder this all the time. I worry about him damaging them emotionally. Is it really likely I would have a case to stop him seeing them?

I don't want to do that to them either. What an idiot he is. Why on earth he can't act like a responsible adult is beyond me.*

I think that's a valid worry, given the history. I would keep doing what you're doing (explaining to them that both parents still love them etc.) and deal with each ex-related problem as it comes. As they get older, they may well become wise to his manipulations and choose to see less of him. Regardless, they'll always have a safe home with you. I wouldn't try to stop him seeing them unless they become particularly distressed by something he says/does: not because I don't think the low-level, subtle stuff is also damaging, but because it might be difficult for you to argue your case with that.

I was an avid reader as a child, and read the likes of "David Copperfield", "Oliver Twist" and "Jane Eyre" before starting secondary school. I was honestly gobsmacked at some of the darker aspects of these novels which had escaped me when I went back to them as a young adult; to be fair, they were never designed for youngsters to read. I thought I'd followed the narrative thread, could have read them aloud to you perfectly, but I was blessedly naive about the grimmer aspects. I just had an underlying feeling that the hero/heroine was hard done by, but triumphed through adversity.
As for the bad language; she's picked up some new words and phrases, and knows they're "rude" so when feeling at odds with life, she's got something which she knows will have shock value, without really appreciating why they are so unkind. A sensible, age-appropriate explanation about why they are "not the sort of language we use in this house" could be enlightening. I've known younger children come out with colourful expletives to be absolutely at a loss when asked what exactly the word means; they just know it's rude. (Of course, it's possible they do know!)
Suggesting more suitable titles to MIL could be a good way forward.

I wouldn't let my dd (8) read them, my eldest has, but she's 17 now - the David Walliams books gave dd(8) nightmares!

Also, unrelated, but I might start a Jacqueline Wilson thread. I have many opinions on her works!