to wonder if 7 yr old DD should be reading Jacqueline Wilson?

[FakeTalesOfSanFrancisco]

I am separated from my DC father. He didn't see them due to distance throughout lockdown, until about six weeks ago. Just for clarity, he usually has them every other weekend in normal circumstances. He has now seen the DC twice in the past six weeks.

7 year old DD is very bright and an advanced reader, though I've had conversations with her teachers about her comprehension ability. I don't think she is as emotionally mature as some of her friends.

Her behaviour since she has come back from her dad's the first time has been really challenging. Refusing to do any schoolwork, being aggressive at times, just generally difficult, which I've tried to deal with as calmly as possible.

She came out with a phrase 'tough titties with knobs on'- not something she has ever heard from me. Eventually she told me that she read it in 'The Suitcase Kid' by Jacqueline Wilson, which she read at her dad's. From having a quick look on mnet, it looks like the word 'slut' also appears in this book. The books is about a girl unhappy with her parent's divorce. The girl in question is 10- a lot older than 7, nearly 8.

I don't think the book is suitable for a 7 year old in any circumstances but especially not ours- to put it simply the separation hasn't exactly been easy. AIBU to think she shouldn't have been given this to read?

Ex lives with his parents and it's possible that it was his mum that bought it.

@aSofaNearYou

I did read a lot of JW and from this age, but yes an awful lot of them do deal with divorce. I haven't read them as an adult so it's hard to say whether she handles the issue well, but I certainly remember a lot of content with children being very bitter and upset by their parents divorce. That's actually where I got my first impression of kids with separated parents as a child as I didn't have any direct experience of it, and it did certainly did teach me that it was something bad that made kids miserable, and also made them act out. I can see an argument that it would be helpful for DD to process her feelings, but if you're already noticing a negative change in her attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's inspired it. It doesn't sound like she's relating to the content in a positive way.

@aSofaNearYou you've put it more articulately than me 😂 I've never read Jacqueline Wilson myself but that's the feeling I had. If there's a positive outcome that could help a struggling child then great but she wasn't acting out like this. She now seems to be copying the book- she has a sylvanian family rabbit that she has now named radish- apparently this is in the book.

@lanthanum I think it was definitely bought for her- ex DH and his brother would not have read this as DC- I'm fairly certain of that.

I wouldn't be too worried about the word 'slut' as long as I explained it's a disgusting thing to call a woman and why.

I remember explaining to one of my DC what the word 'cunt' meant and why it shouldn't be used as an insult and they couldn't have been any older than about 6 at the time.

Still no idea where they heard it but there you go.

But he has told them 'mummy sent daddy away' and other things- hardly true or realistic and potentially damaging.

This sounds very stressful and upsetting. I think this will be much harder for your daughter than anything in the JW book. I’m so sorry, it must be very hard knowing he is saying these things and not being able to do anything about it.

The girls in love series is definitely aimed at older kids, teens really. It deals with sex and drinking and all sorts.

I think some are ok but a lot of them do look at tough issues and have some mild swearing in. This thread actually reminded me of when I was about 8 or 9 reading my library book out loud to my teacher. It was the suitcase kid and I read the passage out where the stepmum gets called a slut. My teacher insisted she saw the book to check that word actually appeared and I wasn't just making it up!

Then there are the Tracy beaker series and the bed and breakfast star that deal with difficult topics but are geared more towards kids. I'd probably say 9-10 is the appropriate age for those.

My daughter started reading JW at the age of about 8. She loved them, apart from My sister Jodie which made her cry. She hasn't copies any of the phrase from it though. If she wants to read them then have a look at some different ones as,I think some are aimed at younger children.
I,don't think what your daughter said was that bad tbh.

Yeah, I would definitely say the ‘Girls in Love’ series is for older children - 12+ at least. Some would definitely be fine for younger children (The Lottie Project, for example) but as a PP said there can be a big range. It’s worth reading up about each title online or asking for advice in book shops.

@CluelessBaker honestly the whole situation is a nightmare. I only posted specifically about the issue of the book- I suppose I needed to put a bit more context. But I didn't want to sound like some insane bitter ex.

He was abusive to me- emotionally and coercive control. We finally split when I found out he'd quit his job without telling me and built up a large amount of debt behind my back. So we split for those reasons, hardly as simple as I sent him away. I had women's aid helping me.

Despite all of that, I have never tried to stop him seeing them and haven't badmouthed him. I'd prefer to do the best for the DC going forward but he's manipulative- I even wondered if the Jacqueline Wilson books were chosen for a certain motive! He continues to be very difficult- I can't go into details as I've been outing enough! I NC for this but I've been here since 2012- remember the penis beaker threads etc,

@Rosebel it's not what she said- I'm relaxed around language. It was the phrase that alerted me to what she's reading and I'm concerned that the books are too mature for her in content. Tough titties is nothing 😂

It sounds more likely that being back at her dad’s after a long break coupled with the things he’s been saying to her has unsettled her, rather than the book per se. It’s interesting you say the DC have been fine and coped well with the split, yet also your ex was abusive and the situation is an ongoing nightmare. I’d be surprised if they’ve not picked up on any of that at all?

I actually would have said no to many of her books for my now adult DD when she was 7, I actually stopped allowing my DC watching Tracey Beaker on TV as I realised they were copying phrases such as “You’ve ruined my life”. I think in your circumstances I would be very wary which ones DD was reading, if you have a good relationship with MIL could you give her a list of the ones you would be happy for DD to read? In my experience they are “with caution” for many children in different situations, they could certainly distress or frighten them if they are too young.

@FakeTalesOfSanFrancisco I’m so sorry - he sounds like a nightmare. And then you’re left in the awful position of not being able to defend yourself without criticising him, which you don’t want to do because you care enough about your kids to not use them as pawns.

I truly believe these things come out in the end and your daughter knows or will know that it’s rubbish and that you aren’t to blame!

@Lianarose they've coped well because we are no longer in the situation. They were 5 and 3 and I did everything I could to keep the abuse away from them. They've been incredibly resilient, happy children, and they are far better off not being in the situation. It has also been me who has tried to give them the message that being from separated parents is fine and that we both still love them.

In Enid Blyton, Gwen? Oh some attitudes about bullying which looking back were pretty awful - that it was acceptable to tease and bully if someone was fat or ‘unsportsy.’ Racism and sexism, too.

And as for the ongoing nightmare- he is refusing to cooperate with solicitors, and continuing to do things to cause me problems (I don't want to discuss as I've been outing enough). But none of those things are things that the DC are aware of.

I read practically all the Jacqueline Wilson books when I was younger, including the ones aimed at teens before I was a teenager. I found them so innocent and they certainly didn’t cause me any issues. She deals with such a range of subjects I think it’s great for younger children. There are some older books that I think children should read but not before a certain age, but I wouldn’t put Wilson in that bracket at all. Wilson’s books have good morals and understandings in them and it’s a good education. They NEVER suggest that a child from any background is in the wrong or disadvantaged, they always have a happy ending where the children feel empowered. I don’t think you should stop her. As I say, even the older books that dealt with a bit of sex and eating disorders were very tame compared to other teenage books and I would be more than happy for my DC to read them say, aged 10.

I don't like Jacqueline Wilson books and dont think they are appropriate for a 7 tear old. Can you read it yourself and see what you thi k?
There are so many lovely books for children o dont see why they need to read such depressing bilge

@Gwenhwyfar

"To be honest I think I unknowingly absorbed some odd attitudes in some rather old-fashioned books I had a penchant for as a child, Enid blyton especially."

That's interesting. Can you give some examples?

Sambo, the black doll is hated by his owner and the other toys because of his "ugly black face", and runs away. Rain washes his face clean, after which he is welcomed back home with his now pink face.

Enid Blyton was an awful woman who was mean to her own daughters and other children in the neighbourhood!

I would nip into a bookshop and talk to someone there for some recommendations. There are loads of options out there depending on her tastes. But as I said, Jacqueline Wilson meant so much to me at that age and I didn’t learn anything ‘naughty’ from her. Mates taught me about sex and the word cunt in junior school. Not from the pages of such books.

It's tricky isn't it - I absolutely adored JW at that age and older, but upon reflection I really shouldn't have been reading some of those books, they were far too old for me!
Divorce/deadbeat dads are lurking in the background of many of her other books, ones that focus on other issues for the 'main' bit, such as The Lottie Project where the dad is absent. If your DD enjoys her as a writer, she could maybe read some of the more lighthearted, age-appropriate books like TLP or the fab Hetty Feather. If you think your ex gave her the book as a jab at you, you could turn it around and take control of the situation by encouraging DD to read her other works.

I agree with what a PP said about JW being a writer who really cares about children and advocates for them through her writing. Some of her other works may also be useful for your DD as she gets older in terms of showing the impact of abuse on women and children. (I know you say she isn't aware of anything in your relationship, I just mean more generally, in terms of illustrating to her that relationships ending is not always a bad thing and there are many complex reasons why they do.)

Side note: the only JW book I would never let a child OR teen read, at least not without some discussion about it, is Love Lessons. I think Wilson definitely wrote it with the best intentions in mind, but it comes across a genuine love story between a teacher and a pupil without fully exploring the power imbalance between them and the ramifications of that. It's so uncomfortable... I doubt it would ever be published today.

Sorry, I've derailed a bit here. As I'm sure you can tell, I could talk about JW for hours...

OP, you're doing a fab job with shielding your kids from the ex's continued manipulations. Discussing divorce and separation openly with them is also really good. Keep it up

I have no idea what she was thinking with Love Lessons.

I never read Love Lessons, it was about a teacher-student relationship?!

You have to be quite careful with Jacqueline Wilson. Some are fine for 7 year olds IMO e.g. Sleepovers, Best Friends, Double Act. Others are more suitable for older children. DD (age 10) was given the 'Girls In Love' series a couple of years ago, which I haven't let her read because I don't think they're appropriate for children at all. Maybe at 14+, but by then I think they'll seem too easy/babysish so I'll probably just bin them. DD thought the Hetty Feather series was good and also liked Katy. The problem is that it's very hard to tell from the outside what the content is like. I bought My Sister Jodie for DD and regretted it, I've been more careful since then.

Hi OP! I actually did the exact same thing to my mum around her age and said the same phrase from the same book. It's a difficult one. I agree some of the themes and characters are quite mature in JW books but actually I was around her age and was totally absorbed in them. I say for now, let her enjoy them. Some are more mature than others; I remember a girls series about a girl called Ellie and they were definitely more mature so perhaps have a look online to see if you can distinguish between more and less appropriate JW books if you're worried. FWIW it helps no adverse effect on me but my DM remembers to this day the shock at me coming out with it

Ds read loads of JW books from age 7, he watched Tracy Beaker & The Dumping Ground on CBBC, her books are good at bringing difficult topics up in a child friendly way.