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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want to slap people who say LAY down when they mean LIE down?

165 replies

UnquietDad · 27/09/2007 10:29

That's it, really.

OP posts:
rantinghousewife · 27/09/2007 10:31

Having a bad morning UD, perhaps you ought to lay down

ib · 27/09/2007 10:31

I've seen this a lot and it has me very confused (English is my second language). Why is it done? Can someone explain?

Lorayn · 27/09/2007 10:32

Sorry UD, I say it sometimes.

coppertop · 27/09/2007 10:33

Not unreasonable to want to but unreasonable to actually do it.

Original poster
UnquietDad · 27/09/2007 10:36

You lay a thing down, e.g. lay a strip of wallpaper on a table for pasting. Lay is transitive - it takes an object.

Lie is intransitive - doesn't take a direct object. I lie down, you lie down, he/she lies down.

Simple past of lie is lay - I lie down today, I lay down yesterday.

Hope that makes things clearer!

OP posts:
harleyd · 27/09/2007 10:37

lol

MaryBleedinPoppins · 27/09/2007 10:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MaryAnnSingleton · 27/09/2007 10:39

YANBU - I hate it !!

Lorayn · 27/09/2007 10:39

Lol, I know the difference UD, it's just habit, I'll say 'lay down' to the kids at bedtime

elesbells · 27/09/2007 10:40

lol at being anal

but i am laying down an object - my body

bonitaMia · 27/09/2007 10:46

I am not sure why native speakers do it, but being Spanish, I can say that those 2 verbs (to lie and to lay) cause a lot of confusion when you are learning English at school because the past of "lie" (as in lie down, not as in telling porkies) is "lay" so EFL students get these 2 mixed up very often when "reciting" the list of irregular verbs by infinitive, past, and participle .

SenoraPostrophe · 27/09/2007 10:47

what about lay lady lay?

I'll be singing it in my head all day now. thanks a bunch.

Original poster
UnquietDad · 27/09/2007 10:48

Nobody ever said English was logical.

OP posts:
mybabysinthegarden · 27/09/2007 10:51

YANBU as long as IANBU to get worked up about people using 'reticent' when they mean 'reluctant'-- see it in print all the time.

Original poster
UnquietDad · 27/09/2007 10:52

Yes - also misused all the time:

enormity
fulsome

OP posts:
Wisteria · 27/09/2007 10:54

I am also incredibly anal about language which, living in Nottinghamshire, is a bit of a problem , I also can't abide 'will you borrow me that' or 'be Pacific'.....there are many more bug bears but I can't drag them up at the moment!

To make matters worse dp is from Leicester and they don't seem to know the word 'to', for instance 'Are you going Tesco's?' or I went Sainsbury's' - he obviously doesn't do it anymore as his left cheek began to hurt

So slap away UQD - we'll start a revolution!

rantinghousewife · 27/09/2007 10:55

Actually I do agree but, my real pet peeve happens to be the Charlie and Lola books. Hate them with a passion. The grammar's appalling.

bonitaMia · 27/09/2007 10:55

Anyway, I sympathise with UnquietDad, I am a linguist and I feel the same about "crimes" against the Spanish language by their own native speakers.

suzycreamcheese · 27/09/2007 10:57

chill ud
its not the worst
and can easily see confusion for second language english as mentioned

on a different note:
love them to bits
that gets me everytime..bits of what..?

SenoraPostrophe · 27/09/2007 11:21

yaabu.

language is fluid. lay may well have been the correct term at one point but was superceded by lie. Dialects are OK.

do you get upset about will and shall, ud?

tigerschick · 27/09/2007 11:29

I get wound up by all sorts of things like those mentioned here.
When I worked in schools in Milton Keynes I noticed a lot of the children would ask "can I go for a toilet?" I was very confused and thought it was just the children until I heard adults saying things like "I'm just nipping for a toilet." Very strange.

I am not getting at ESL speakers as I am fully aware that A. learning another language is hard, (having tried and failed to learn 3) and B. English is a pig of a language as it is a mixture of so many others.

Original poster
UnquietDad · 27/09/2007 11:34

But does something just become "accepted" because people are using it wrongly, as they don't know any better? I don't think that's the way language evolves. You still don't see "lay" used incorrectly in books and newspapers. And the day any print medium tries to get away with "should of" they will find said publication returned to them by me - shredded.

OP posts:
tigerschick · 27/09/2007 11:37

I agree that, just because something is used (or mis-used) widely, doesn't make it eventually correct.
Another one that really annoys me is brought and bought. They are two different words with different meanings that happen to sound similar, why do so many people have a problem with getting them the correct way around?

SenoraPostrophe · 27/09/2007 11:42

you do see people laying all the time in books actually.

Language changes in many ways and in many directions. One of the drivers of change is indeed people's tendency to simplify language - to make words the same as other words or to make something mean what it sounds like it means. English used to have gender and all sorts of inflections it doesn't now have because of that tendency.

It is clearly not wrong to use "you" when people used to use "ye" or "thee", but there was apoint in time when it was wrong.

bonitaMia · 27/09/2007 11:43

I know, I know UQ was really talking about native speakers. I just wanted to point out that that particular mistake is a common pitfall for EFL students. I must stay I do use those verbs properly. Having said that, I make other mistakes like pronouncing "baked" like "naked" (not always - only when I am tired or ranting) which my dh finds very amusing .