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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU to say no to bailing BIL out?

578 replies

YeahWhatevver · 03/07/2020 13:31

Really struggling to work out what to do.

DH and BIL are relatively close. BIL has never been great with money, definitely lives for the moment. Has in the past had quite a bit of credit card debt and has previously struggled with managing his money. He has (had) a decent job BIL and SIL both work, though SIL is 2 days a week. They have 2 kids.

DH and BIL inherited just under 90k each about 2.5 years ago from their Mother's estate. Nothing was ever discussed about what they were planning to do with it, we put a lot of it into the mortgage or set it aside to put into the mortgage when our fixed term ends (want to a out early repayment fees) and have put some aside for our kids (first cars/bit ot money for college)

Looks like BIL spent most of his - none of our business it's his to use as he wants.

BIL is looking like he'll imminently lose his job. And called up DH asking of he has any of mum's inheritance left as he's in a bit of a spot a figure of £25k seems to have been banded about. Annoyingly DH said yes, we've got quite a bit in savings, so BIL knows we could if we wanted to

DH has previously "loaned" BIL money for it to never be returned fully.

Our family and BIL's family have similar incomes. So it's not like DH has got lucky while BIL has been dealt a bad hand in life.
BIL has a lot bigger house, 2 nice cars lots of personal finance

I can tell DH is protective of his brother and wants to help but I really want to just say no. We've made plans around this money, made sacrifices to be in the financial position we are now and I don't see why we should squander those plans to bail out someone who has failed to take responsibility for themselves.

Problem is, I can see this creating a huge rift.

WIBU to speak to BIL and say no?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 04/07/2020 08:35

When you buy cars on finance sometimes they will let you exchange for something cheaper. If nothing else perhaps exchanging for something much cheaper to run including insurance and fuel... likely that they have gas guzzlers?

saraclara · 04/07/2020 08:35

Echoing the pp who said that a paid financial advisor isn't the way to go. It's your money down the drain and poorer advice than he'd get through stepchange or the CAB who are experts.

He and you/your DH need to get on the Martin Lewis website and take advantage of the massive amount of info and helpful signposting on there.

RandomMess · 04/07/2020 08:38

Also this property investment he needs to tell them his situation and he needs to be bought out otherwise the creditors will be placing charges left right centre against them because they are still part of his assets.

Rainbowshine · 04/07/2020 08:49

Ouch that sounds very messy with the investment. I think you’re taking the right approach by paying for distinct things not just chucking them money for whatever. Hopefully this will help BIL recognise that money management is vital even if times are good as you don’t know what is around the corner.

MrsBobDylan · 04/07/2020 08:55

If BiL is a big spender the money you loan with be gone will no way of paying it back.

If BiL is in a bad way financially with debt and potential job loss, 25k will not save him, it'll just prop him up for a few months.

Unfortunately, he probably needs to fall first and hit the bottom before he realises he needs to change.

ThickFast · 04/07/2020 09:02

Sounds good. I agree with getting debt advice rather than financial advice. And it’s free. In the long term this will all be better for you BIL Hopefully it’ll be the boost he needs to sort his shit out. The 25k would have just been pissed down the drain like all his other money. It might be that he needs to hit the bottom before he realises he has to change. And lending him money will just prolong that.

LakieLady · 04/07/2020 09:18

I agree with a PP that a financial adviser isn't what they need, it's a debt adviser. And not one that costs money, or one that gets them into a debt management plan where they pay £100 a month but only £20 goes to the creditors, the rest goes to the debt management company.

As he has business interests in the form of this property company, an IVA might well be an appropriate solution, but only accredited debt/insolvency specialists can do that. Step Change are good, but it's a telephone service and they might not be the right people in a situation of this complexity.

If selling the house would leave them with enough capital to buy somewhere to live, I think they should do that. Then they won't have the pressure and stress of worrying about losing their home and will be able to focus on the consumer debts (as long as none of the creditors petition for bankruptcy).

The property development/management business was clearly ill-thought out. Lots of people make lots of money from it, but it's also very easy to cock up (as anyone who watches Homes Under The Hammer will know!). Both my BIL's are in this game, both are very experienced, and even so, both have nearly come to grief in the process.

I'm so glad your DH saw sense, @YeahWhatevver.

ZombieLizzieBennet · 04/07/2020 09:28

That's interesting about the property development and makes sense. I couldn't see how even a spendthrift could've spaffed 90k plus whatever they both earned in a couple of years without there being a dubious investment in there somewhere.

It's good that DH seems to be on side. I was going to echo other posters and say if you thought there was any chance of him having his arm twisted, paying off the mortgage and sucking up the early repayment fee would be the way to go. If 90k would cover it, the early repayment fee can't be more than a few grand anyway. But if you totally trust that DH will stand firm, then maybe no need.

ButteryPuffin · 04/07/2020 09:35

So in @FishyDuck's view, then, the person you're married to isn't your family and their view doesn't count. How do you ever create and continue a family then? Doesn't make sense.

billy1966 · 04/07/2020 09:47

It is very easy to upscale your lifestyle but challenging to downscale!

For a lot of people the only borrowing that is acceptable is for a morgage, the rest requires saving for.

Borrowing for a smart kitchen is madness as is for new cars IMO.

These things won't help you sleep at night.

He has put his family in peril by being so wasteful.

Allowing him to go through this unsaved by ye could be the making of him.

I would help someone out in genuine need in a heartbeat, but someone like your BIL, not a chance.

He has zero respect for money and until he does, he's going to be in dire trouble with it.

Beware of getting sucked in to this whole thing.
He needs to sort himself out.

Flowers
PAND0RA · 04/07/2020 09:58

DH did offer to sit down and try and look at finances and work out a way to restructure it, offer wasn't accepted, think mostly embarrassment on BIL part

My guess is that BIL doesn’t want advice that might involve him changing his lifestyle. He wants to keep it and find other sources of funding. Now he’s failed with his brother he will start on other family members.

InsaneInTheViralMembrane · 04/07/2020 10:16

I do get the embarrassment part. When I hit “rock bottom” it was a week or two after I’d just spent over £100 quid on a moisturiser (which gave me spots) in a duty-free shop the other side of the world on a holiday I couldn’t afford... Between the embarrassment and adrenaline (fear the net is closing in) my head wasn’t in a good place at all for getting things straight.

Dave Ramsey is very good for anyone wanting a “financial reset” - his stuff needs a little tweak because it’s US-focused, but the fundamentals are sound. People seem to be able to access INSANE amounts of credit in the US, but are able to turn things around.

But until you know whether it is salvageable or whether bankruptcy is a more realistic option it’s hard to know what to do.

ZombieLizzieBennet · 04/07/2020 10:35

Most people wouldn't accept someone they knew scrutinising their personal finances unless there was an incentive, ie if DH had made a loan/gift conditional on it. I think it's for the best BIL has refused actually, better for this work to be done by a neutral, disinterested professional. The absolute best thing the family could do is support him to access proper debt advice.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 04/07/2020 10:40

Support him selling the investment flats and probably selling his house...

No money

Any money you lend him will end up being a gift.... at your financial detriment

I would help this way rather than financially.

ZombieLizzieBennet · 04/07/2020 10:41

The problem appears to be that not all the owners of the investment flats want to sell. Difficult situation there.

KeepingPlain · 04/07/2020 10:44

Honestly, I'd be changing the password to the account the money is in so he can't access it online. And then telling the bil to figure out his own problems and stop asking for help. He's a grown man, he needs to learn how to use a calculator. His problem if he can't be bothered.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 04/07/2020 10:55

Will he not get a redundancy package, personally I may offer 10k but no more than that.

GabsAlot · 04/07/2020 11:08

financial advisor is for people with money to invest not debt managment

all the free advisors for this can help you dont need to pay-nice of you to offer though

Persiaclementine · 04/07/2020 11:11

I would t due to his bad habits with money nd the likely hood you wo t see it back

Original poster
YeahWhatevver · 04/07/2020 11:31

Thanks r.e. Financial advisor vs debt counselling.

I'll let DH know.

OP posts:
ZombieLizzieBennet · 04/07/2020 11:33

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend

Will he not get a redundancy package, personally I may offer 10k but no more than that.
He won't get statutory as he's been in the job under 2 years. Employer could in theory offer something optionally, but the aviation sector is in very poor shape so I wouldn't expect much.
gingerbiscuits · 04/07/2020 11:40

No way would I agree to that - I'd prepare for the argument but stick to my guns! BIL is an outrageously CF & DH is a mug for letting him get away with it so often & is also being very unfair to you.

Ellie56 · 04/07/2020 11:46

Agree it's debt counselling BIL needs, not financial advice.

StuffThem · 04/07/2020 11:48

Crikey. Right decision, hang right to that.

90k inheritance and he still borrowed for kitchen and cars is insane.

PersonaNonGarter · 04/07/2020 12:14

Warren Buffet: It’s when the tide goes out that you see who’s been swimming naked

They’ve been swimming naked for too long. It’s awful when debt crashes down on people but they will be absolutely fine and happy again once this is sorted - which it will be even if it takes a while.