Am I cruel to deny a 10 year old a smart phone

[dairyfairies]

I really need some perspective. All of DD's friends seem to have a smart phone. I really don't know what's 'normal' at 10 but DD doesn't have one. I also have a teen with complex SN who doesn't have a phone.

Anyhow DD (10) is crying daily. She has been out in the street again and saw a few friends and apparently, all friends chat via whatsapp, do tiktok (I wouldn't let her on there in any case), play games on Roblox etc.

DDs tablet broke during lockdown and she can only use the family laptop in the late evening - I use it to WFH for the time being.

DD is really 'heartbroken' about me denying her what all her friends have (her words, not mine).

Am I really cruel or out of touch by not letting DD have a smart phone or a tablet to be on WhatsApp/tiktok/gaming stuff?

Because DC1 has so complex needs and is totally different, I really haven't got a good feel for what is the norm these days. I any case, as a lone parent on a very small part time job due to DC1's complex needs, money is incredibly tight and I couldn't afford a phone or new tablet right now in any case but might be able to save up for one if we really cut some corners. Just don't think it is needed.

I really could do with some perspective.

Aibu - yes, save up for a phone
Yanbu - sod the phone. This can wait a few more years

Dd is 10 and her phone has been invaluable to her over lockdown. She's been on video calls on what's app with friends most days and now restrictions are being lifted she's arranging little meet ups without having to take my phone. Even her best friend who's parents were previously very against the idea have given in due to the benefits of it over lockdown.

And surely she'll be going out on her own/without you for short times soon. A phone gives massive pics of mind for that. I don't think you have a few years for that.

You're not being cruel but you are making her life more difficult than it needs to be. We have lots of rules for tablet and phone usage including knowing passwords, checking messages, etc. No electronics at the dinner table. No electronics in the bedroom. All class chat groups whether on tablet or WhatsApp were major sources of drama so DS isn't on those. Also no social media like Twitter, insta, facebook.

@darkcaramel my DD is very sociable in person, she has plenty of friends at school (in her key worker bubble and normal class). She has friends we meet up with out of school and friends at clubs. No confidence issues at all, very socially aware and able to 'fit in'. She has quite young tastes I guess--lego, theatre club, crafting. But at hone she plays with her little brother, on her own or with us and doesn't feel the need to communicate with other children constantly. I don't think it is damaging her to let this continue. She has plenty of access to tech but doesn't enjoy messaging and video calling. We tried both at the beginning of lockdown and it's just not her thing.

Any other time I would say you were not being unreasonable, but with the pandemic and lockdown you do need to cave here.

My 10 yo doesn’t have a phone currently. She takes my old phone on days she walks home from school alone but it’s literally just for calls, she can’t play on it. Of her group of 4 close friends, one has a phone with no SIM and one has a fully functioning phone but no one to text on it! We’ve spoken to their parents and the general consensus is that phone is going to be “the” 11th birthday present. I’m quite keen on the monqi, it’s a smart phone but with a lot of parental oversight so you can ease them into the world of phones gradually.

At the end of the day, if you can’t afford it that’s that. If you can save up I’d look to get her one when you can, but I wouldn’t really believeThat EVERYONE has one, because that’s extremely unlikely. Can you set her up an email address to message her friends? That’s been quite good for my 10 year old, and she’s been able to email grandparents/aunts and uncles as well.

I wouldn’t be comfortable giving a smartphone to a 10 year old and it doesn’t harm children to be told they have to wait for the things they want.

Maybe she could save any pocket money/gift money she gets over the next year to put towards a phone with the agreement she can have it when she has X amount? Then you’re not saying no, she works for it and will be older by the time she has enough.

I begged my parents for a Nokia 3210 around her age and I was 12 before I was allowed a mobile phone.

**if she can't use whatsapp then i am not sure how they'll communicate?

she sees her friends when playing in the street*

The thing is the rest of the kids will be chatting about things they've spoken about after they went in the night before and doing throngs they've arranged that morning before they go out. As a PP said your DD's life is already limited through no fault of anyone's so I'd do all I could to give her this one so she can lead a normal friendship life. There are some incredibly cheap smart phones out there now, even cheaper if you pick one up 2nd hand, or yes I'd trade phones for the time being. At this age a phone is more useful - dd has both but rarely uses the tablet and if finances mean that a tablet purchase will mean a phone is out of the question for a long time then I'd pick the phone. I pick hers up and read through it regularly. She has strict rules and has no issue sticking to them.

Oh and out of the kids in DD's school year yes, they pretty much all have phones. There are 90 of them and dd has deleted most of the large group chats as they are just too busy. Certainly every one of her large friendship group does as do all her friends/cousins outside of school so I'd not say it was unlikely at all that these dc do

In normal circumstances I'd say you were not being unreasonable at all but given the lack of school for most children I think it is nice for them to have some way to chat online. HOWEVER if you do get her a phone you will need to install safeguards and monitor it closely to keep her safe and stop it taking over her life. Expect it to make her unhappy frequently, younger kids are forever falling out on line.

I would look for an android phone rather than an iPhone, they are generally cheaper, have better battery life & can expand the memory with a card. She will need a phone when she starts secondary school so getting one now will give her chance to learn the rules whilst her friends circle is smaller.

I recently got my Year 5 DC a smart phone - like many others I was aiming to wait until secondary but changed my mind when lockdown started. I check the phone frequently (DC knows this), but it’s clear from what I’ve seen that some parents don’t. The boys’ conversations on the whole tend to be very bland - largely just a stream of texts saying ‘hi’ to each other! The girls’ conversations are generally more sophisticated, but along with that I’ve seen many a passive aggressive comment and attempt to tell others what they should and shouldn’t be doing. The phone is also pinging away at all hours (often beyond 10:30pm), so mine is only allowed on at certain times - if DC had free rein it’d be one long conversation running all day and I wasn’t having that. So there are some pretty significant disadvantages. FaceTime via the phone has however been fantastic for my DC, but that’s because there are no friends to spend time with outside. Since your DD can spend time with other children physically, I don’t think she needs a smart phone right now. Saying that, I do appreciate why she must feel left out. It’s a difficult one. Perhaps you could tell her you’ll start saving for a phone, with the aim of getting one in the next academic year, so at least she knows one is coming? (But you can put it off by saving slowly!)

I don't think you're cruel but I think getting one - that can access wifi only - would make a big difference to her. You can refurbished iPhones/other smartphones on eBay from £30-40 if that's doable price wise? Then all the obvious stuff about monitoring it etc :-)

My DD9 uses my phone, she has a message group with her mates and I can monitor, she is not the only one using a parent’s phone (several of them are and if mostly seems to consist of sending each other emojis!) She’s not really into gaming and has never asked for Roblox. There is no way she would be allowed TikTok, even restricted - the filter isn’t good enough. She just asks to use it to message her mates, gives it back and if it buzzes with lots of emojis I pass it to her. She knows that sometimes it’s off limits, if I need to make phone calls or go shopping but is actually really good about it.
Perhaps start with letting her use your phone to do some what’s app?

No plans to get one til at least 12, my dd has a few friends messaging me on mine and they send pages of nonsense. They are too young to set boundaries and only respond at certain times - or at least my dd is so it would cause constant friction.

Maybe a cheaper tablet is a good first step and see how it goes.

I also think it’s fine to say you just can’t afford it, these things are expensive. Can she get her friends to message you if there is an important meet up?

My biggest worry was the value of something a child might not look after properly. Both of my DS had a Vodafone smart first when they were around 8, just to get them used to needing to take care of it. They were £25 from Argos, including £10 top up which you wouldn't need to continue with if it was just for WhatsApp and other WiFi based stuff.

After proving they could look after one (and actually used one) for a couple of years I got them a contract iPhone. Might be a way of compromising without risking a big investment in something that could get lost.

Yes - it's time to start thinking about phones over the next year, as DC is going into Yr6. Usually by Yr7 secondary school DCs do need a phone as they walk to and from school independently, have clubs that get cancelled or arranged last minute after school, and more importantly their timetables and school work is usually in a school app that goes on their phones! They use it as camera for plenty of things for secondary school work (not just art!)

Either get second hand or
Cheap phones from new....

MotoG try G6 inwards, 36GB upwards..

Huewai Y7 36GB is a great starter for Android- £119 at the moment (£8 for case and glass screen protectors) Grab it during Black Friday sales end of Oct/Nov for a bit cheaper ready for Xmas.

Buy Sim free and look out for mobile sim deals, eg Giftgaff has no contract, Virgin you can get special deals if you wait, eg we have £6/month for unlimited texts, 1000minuteds and 3GB a month, £8 month for 8GB and same- depending on what deal was available when we booked it. They use WiFi when home but beat to have some data. Tbh kids all talk through wha ta app vid chat not mobile minutes.

Always set theobile extra spending cap at zero. All mobile providers are legally required to make available that option now- so ask when you set it up. They won't volunteer it! But it'll save you hundreds £ to prevent accidentally going over data or minutes or £10a at 50p per photo they try to SMS (when they could WhatsApp it for free)

In the meantime, let her use WhatsApp on your phone to contact her friends- my year 6 did for agreed periods during the day. She didn't have mobile to from school as our school took them off DC & into office each day anyway and it wasn't a long walk there and back.

And take it from me- start with and continue mobile rules that

1. All mobiles come downstairs to charge overnight at 10pm onwards- none in bedroom overnight. (I REGRET NOT DOING THIS SO MUCH!! You can't add it in as a rule later without huge rebellion and being told 'No it's my phone' by sulky teenage bigger than you whose been video chatting until early hours with friends and is bloody tired!)
2. You are allowed to check their phones anytime or they don't have a phone
3. No adding people to their WhatsApp or snapchat or whatever , if they do not go to their school with them, they agree all friends with you first (that'll only last till they are 14-15 but it'll help in early days)
4. Any bullying of , or by them, they talk to you about and don't respond and you decide what to do together in a measured way. All my DC were bullied at some point by mobile or by Xbox chat or chat in a game on tablet. It's inevitable but harder to switch off from in mobile as it's with them all the time.

I meant 32GB of course Doh!

You're not being cruel but you are making her life more difficult than it needs to be.

if you read my OP you would have understand that this isn't entirely choice. Bringing up a severely disabled child as lone parent comes with the added side effect that you are poor. And not buying a phone is not only a conscious choice but also largely dictated by finances. It's not my fault but thank you for rubbing it in.

Sparticuscaticus she has been walking to school and back since she has been 8. She has a Motorola dumb phone. and right now, she is at home anyways.

Op my year 5 dd will not be getting a phone until she needs it for walking home midway through next year. That will be a basic one too.

Until lockdown I could see no benefit to what’s app etc as they saw each other 5 days a week and holidays were often a welcome rest from all the developing social complexities . During lockdown she’s been welcome to use my phone for messages and calls to individual friends.

Her school are very keen on emphasising that the age limits for many of these social apps are older than anyone in a primary and in fact many are 16+ including WhatsApp now. They also point out that many of the falling outs and bullying episodes they deal with are linked to social media use outside of school.

I do occasionally have wobbles where she mentions plaintively that a friend has a new phone etc but on general I just don’t want that to be something we deal with yet.

I see that it has become the norm to have a phone for her age but I’m trying hard not to let that override my gut instinct about what would work for my dd.

Decide when you think it is appropriate for her to have her first phone. Tell her when that will be. Eg when you start secondary school or when you are 13. Then stick to it. You could ask around for anyone with 2nd hand laptop or tablet available for her to use for gaming in the meantime.
I've said my 10 yo can have phone when she starts secondary school, but I doubt it will be a smart phone

Stick to your guns. You are being sensible and conscientious. It will mean all the more to her when she finally gets one if she's had to wait a bit for it. None of mine had a smartphone before age 13 and they all had to chip in, a bit, to the cost so that they had 'skin in the game' and were less likely to lose them. And, I guarantee you, not 'all' her friends have smartphones (although she may think that they do).

I was the first to get a phone when I was 10, and I was a late June baby. This was ten years ago. I'm going to make my daughter wait until she needs a phone for when she's out and about and it'll just be a cheap one for the time. I wasn't mature enough to handle texting and the cyber bullying, I've only just started to get a handle on it all the last couple years and I'm not sure any 10year old is mature enough for all of this. As soon as I got Facebook at 13 my friendships started having issues and all sorts because we were all living in each other's pockets.

My daughter has got an iPad, and would like a phone. She also has too much screen time. She's 9. I might let her have a phone next year, but will be waaaay stricter on screen time when we're out of lockdown.