Think we're illegally in this house.

[Beccy82]

Hi guys. Really need your help plz? I moved into this house in February 2020 with my 4 children, private rental. Haven't had a tenancy agreement but I didn't when I private rented yrs ago either so no problem. In march I had a letter address to my landlord and his ex wife. I told him but he hasn't collected. Since then i've had 9 unopened letters for him.
Yesterday my daughter told me there was a letter in the door so I said "open it and pass it here please" I was washing dishes. It was one of the letters for my landlord. Obviously I shouldn't have read it but seen it said from mortgage express so I did read it. It said this.

Following our previous correspondence with regards to the possible lettings of the above property (my house), to date we have received no further contact from you.

Please note that it is a condition of your loan that you cannot let this property without our permission. To date, this permission has not been granted and you may therefore be in breach of your mortgage conditions if you are letting the property.

Wtf do I do? He's obviously letting the property to me and my family. The previous tenants lived here for 10-11 yrs. Are we going to get kicked out? I'm on tenterhooks here now. I finally found the house i've been looking for and i'm worried sick we'll get kicked out.
I have proof from bank statements that i've paid him rent every month since march. I don't have proof for the first months rent or the bond that was paid in february because my parents paid that but they'll have proof. But again, I don't have a tenancy agreement. All I have is the rent payments and all our messages from him saying what date I can have the key etc.

Please can anyone help?

I work in mortgages this happens all the time it's not a big deal it effects the land lord if he wants to change the deal but easily fixed if he pays a small fee and gets consent to let . If he doesn't respond to the letter or doesn't call to change his deal then nothing happens a lot of people rent out properties without permission as buy to let properties require a huge deposit where as residential properties don't and it's easy to get consent to let after a short period of time

Send the letters to your landlord registered delivery. It's his mortgage but he is defrauding the mortgage company. It's quite likely he has mortgage arrears but this is not your problem directly.
He's unlikely to be able to switch mortgage lenders to a buy to let if he already has arrears. Also, these days, I don't think mortgage companies like to give a btl mortgage if this is the only property he owns.
I believ that if you don't have a written tenancy agreement, then it is assumed that you have a assured tenancy agreement anyway, with all the protection that gives to a tenant. But, if he hasn't protected your deposit properly, and given you the info about where it was lodged etc. as well as other essential info regarding renting, and a copy of the EPC then he will be dealt with severely through the courts. In particular, he should have given you a valid in date copy of the landlord's gas safety check. You need to insist on being given one, or getting one done immediately (assuming that the property has gas of course!)
He will not be able to evict you without these things. No doubt the mortgage company could evict you in due course having sued him. This wouldn't happen immediately, you do need to be concerned that you will eventually need to move unless he sorts out everything with the mortgage company.
You are entitled to claim (I think) 3 times the deposit back from him if he hasn't put it into one of the approved schemes and given you the paperwork within a month of moving in.
He's been incredibly stupid, is probably avoiding paying tax as well and will have the book thrown at him.
You need to contact him immediately and tell him you need a tenancy agreement and a gas safety check done immediately, and you need to know where your deposit was lodged and the relevant paperwork. Let him know that you're aware that he hasn't met the statutory minimum for rening property. He should be very scared!
if you do need to move out, you can't be evicted overnight, and will have month's to find a new place.

Apologies if this has already been said.

1. Yes, it would be better morally for your landlord not to get away with having a residential mortgage when he actually lets the property. However, it would be a very bad idea for you to further confirm the lenders suspicions by, as a PP suggested, returning letters to sender.

1. It should be quite easy to find out whether your deposit is protected. Follow this link: england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/check_if_your_tenancy_deposit_is_protected

This is quite

We phoned up Santander about letting out our property yesterday and they “this is easy. nothing changes. Just pay £395 fee for us to update the paperwork” (words you that effect!)

And that’s it! Wonder why your landlord won’t just give them a call & ask. Bizarre!!

@Strawberryshortcake28 Literally exactly the same as what Santander told us yesterday it’s so easy!

I wonder how the mortgage lender found out. Any ideas anyone?

It’s important to know that even with a SH tenancy agreement you can still be evicted of the mortgage provider repossesses the property and this can happen at very short notice (normal, non-covid times). This happened to us and we had 1 week to move out. This was over Christmas so we petitioned the court to be registered as an interested party and then contested the eviction. In light of the time of year and the fact we had very young dc we were granted 1 extra week.

You should definitely take proper advice on this.

Find out the Landlords address and post it all to him.

even though hee hasn't given you contract he still would have to go through the section 21 notice
AND
because he hasn't given you the booklet on renting (cant remember title!) & the gas safety cert & copy/information on deposit scheme
he is screwed - even if he shouldn't be renting
In short he has no legal right to take you to court to get you out on a section 21
&
because you have proof that you have paid him rent (bank account)
&
I bet he hasn't done tax either
NONE of which is your problem - I expect the mortgage people will be able to transfer his mortgage over to financial without his permission or take his property back
BUT
even than I think you may have rights

I work in mortgages and believe me when I say, this isn’t your problem. Mortgage companies don’t repossess houses because they “suspect” (eg know!) that they’re renting it out when they shouldn’t be. The only way they will repossess a property and therefore the only reason you’d ever need to be concerned would be if your landlord was in significant mortgage arrears. Of course you’ve no way of knowing that, but nor would you in any other property you rented either. I wouldn’t be worrying myself too much over the tenancy contract either, you’ve no reason to suspect your landlord is going to do you over - he’s just doing what millions of other people do, it just so happens you’ve found out about it.

I rent out my old house and just applied for a “permission to lease” from my mortgage lender. It was so easy and cost me nothing. He should be honest.

I’d call shelter for advice if I was you.

As a side note, its illegal to open someone's mail on purpose..yikes!

OP, Strawberryshortcake28 has given you good advice here. Please don't panic.

You dont nred a written tenancy agreement. The fact that you are paying rent, hes accepting it, you have sole occupancy etc etc creates a tenancy agreement, an assured shorthand tenancy.

If he wants to end the tenancy, he has to serve you with a valid notice.

As a side note, its illegal to open someone's mail on purpose..yikes!

No, it isn't. It's an offence to open incorrectly delivered mail for the purpose of fraud.
In this case the post has been delivered to the correct address and without bad intentions so it fails on both counts.

Hi guys thank u so much for all the comments and advice, I really appreciate you taking the time to comment. I feel so much better now and will sleep better tonight taking on board what you've all said.
I know i've done nothing wrong, rents paid and there's no damage. I know it's all on him but I was so scared that we'd be the ones punished for it by being kicked out.

No, I haven't got a gas certificate and when I moved in there was only a smoke alarm upstairs on the landing and in the living room (I moved in a saturday) on the monday he came and fitted one in the kitchen and all 3 are working.

Makes me wonder if the landlord has forgot about the situation with the mortgage company. If the previous tenant was here for 10-11 yrs then there's no way she was having letters for him for all those yrs and there's no way a company would chase someone for 10-11 yrs they would have acted on it by now. So i'm wondering if he's even forgot after all this time? Obviously I triggered alarm bells when I moved in, i'm assuming from council tax maybe, who knows! But unless he collects these letters then maybe he's none the wiser.
But again, I cant confront him about it or he'll know i've read it.

@nyclair I didn't open his letter on purpose, I wouldn't do that it's not my mail so nothing to do with me. I was washing dishes when my daughter told me there was a letter in the door, I asked her to open it and pass it to me out the kitchen. That's when I seen it. Obviously assumed it was addressed to me. Yes I shouldn't have read it but I did but I didn't open it on purpose.

Would be helpful if pp would stop telling the OP to get a tenancy! She can’t, unless the landlord changes his paperwork\conditions for his mortgage. Millions of people do this?! I ruddy hope not.

Did your friend get her deposit back or use it as her last month’s payment, @Beccy82? I”m taken aback that you didn’t get an AST and didn’t realise you needed one.

@Cherrysoup the previous tenant didn't pay a bond. At the time her boyfriend was working with the landlord, they'd just had a baby and were short of money so he didn't take a bond off them. Which I know a few people who do that, if friends etc.

As for the tenancy agreement, i'll admit i've been a bit dull with that. I did state earlier that because I private rented yrs ago and back then private landlords didn't give tenancy agreements, then I rented off an agency and had one, now this time didn't, so i've been naive and thought obviously private landlords don't give one. Stupid of me i'll admit. But I found out that in 2015 that rule changed and everyone has to give one.

When I first moved in I did ask him for the tenancy agreement in case the council needed to see it. He said ok and that he'd sort it in the next few days. The council never asked to see it so I never chased him for it. Learned my lesson there eh?

You do have a tenancy agreement, just a verbal one instead of a written one. They both hold the same legal standing.

As soon as you took over the property and started paying rent a legal tenancy was created.

OP don't worry. Tenancy agreements as pps have said are there to protect the landlord. They don't give you any additional rights on top of what you have by dint of occupancy and paying rent. In some ways you're actually in a stronger position as it will be much more difficult to shift you. This is your landlord's concern, not yours.

The only thing I'd do is put a narrative on your bank transfer and ask the landlord to get in someone to do a gas safety check. If he doesn't, just pay someone yourself. It's cheaper than moving. Buying your own smoke and carbon monoxide detectors is also very cheap and easy and again is a lot less hassle than packing up all your stuff, finding somewhere to live, getting a deposit together, doing all the moving house admin etc. I really wouldn't worry.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t try and sort the safety checks and tenancy agreement out, but I’m not so sure the lack of permission from mortgage company is your problem.
When I moved in with my husband I couldn’t sell the house I owned as a single person, but still had to pay the mortgage. What else could I do except rent it out? I applied to my mortgage company to change to a buy to let, but they refused. I had a letter similar to the one you read “You do not have permission to rent”. However, I couldn’t sell it, I couldn’t live in it (husband’s house nearer to my workplace and his, and was much more suitable for a family - I was pregnant). So I rented it out for 6 years until I was finally able to sell it. I asked several times over the years if I could convert it to a buy to let, they refused. No idea why.

Oh and if your mate was there for over a decade and he's done work making the place ok before you moved in he doesn't sound like an arsehole Rachman type to me. Jesus wept, there are plenty of people coining it in from unsafe HMOs stuffed with fruit pickers and the like. This isn't even in the same sporting category, never mind the same league.

Definitely ring Shelter. If you're very lucky, the acceptance of rental payments may mean you have a secure tenancy!

@LakieLady

As lovely as this would be, it’ll be irrelevant.

OP the LL is committing fraud because a residential mortgage is different to a buy to let.

Financially he will be gaining by omitting the fact that it’s not the home he’s living in.

He’ll be avoiding tax, possible inheritance tax if he doesn’t jet on he lets it out.

You should really find yourself somewhere else sadly OP.

Poor you and he sounds greedy and selfish!

None of that has anything to do with the OP and it also crucially doesn't make her occupying the house illegal.

The OP has done absolutely nothing wrong. but the landlord has.

It doesn’t sound like the makings of an honest character, so god knows if he’s in arrears.

OP is going to be looking over her back and wondering if it’s going to get repossessed.

The bank won’t take kindly to being ignored either and if they say sell it, it will be sold.

Just doesn’t look great