Think we're illegally in this house.

[Beccy82]

Hi guys. Really need your help plz? I moved into this house in February 2020 with my 4 children, private rental. Haven't had a tenancy agreement but I didn't when I private rented yrs ago either so no problem. In march I had a letter address to my landlord and his ex wife. I told him but he hasn't collected. Since then i've had 9 unopened letters for him.
Yesterday my daughter told me there was a letter in the door so I said "open it and pass it here please" I was washing dishes. It was one of the letters for my landlord. Obviously I shouldn't have read it but seen it said from mortgage express so I did read it. It said this.

Following our previous correspondence with regards to the possible lettings of the above property (my house), to date we have received no further contact from you.

Please note that it is a condition of your loan that you cannot let this property without our permission. To date, this permission has not been granted and you may therefore be in breach of your mortgage conditions if you are letting the property.

Wtf do I do? He's obviously letting the property to me and my family. The previous tenants lived here for 10-11 yrs. Are we going to get kicked out? I'm on tenterhooks here now. I finally found the house i've been looking for and i'm worried sick we'll get kicked out.
I have proof from bank statements that i've paid him rent every month since march. I don't have proof for the first months rent or the bond that was paid in february because my parents paid that but they'll have proof. But again, I don't have a tenancy agreement. All I have is the rent payments and all our messages from him saying what date I can have the key etc.

Please can anyone help?

Afaik you will have an implied contract simply by dint of occupying the house. If there's a problem with tracing the deposit and the LL hasn't used a scheme, he's automatically in the wrong.

I wouldn't panic yet. The contact is between yourself and the LL, not you and the lender.

It does sound as though the LL hasn't got the permission to let. It's not necessarily a disaster. He may be able to get that permission retroactively.

Go to Shelter for help (I wouldn't bother with CAB although they've got some useful stuff on their website).

When I was in this position as a student, bailiffs arrived and said that they were going to come back the next day and board the house up. Whether I had paid rent or had a contract was irrelevant as they were taking control of the property and would secure it. In your shoes I would pay no further rent, find another place to stay and let the landlord keep the deposit as his final payment from me.

In your shoes I would pay no further rent, find another place to stay and let the landlord keep the deposit as his final payment from me It is never a good idea to withhold rent the LL might be in the process of switching lenders.
Contact him ask.
If you withhold money or take this into your own hands without facts you will definitely lose the house.

To add never rent again without a tenancy agreement.

I wouldn't panic for now. As PP has said, you're not in the house illegally, it's the owner who has breached the terms of their mortgage. It sounds as if they have already been caught. They will probably have to pay a fine and switch to a buy to let mortgage for which they will need a proper rental agreement. either way, it is the owner in trouble not you .

He's commiting mortgage fraud.

Even if the mortgage company weren't pursuing the LL over this, you're still in a vulnerable situation. Your contents insurance is probably invalid if the tenancy is illegal, and, if the LL even has buildings insurance, it can't be valid if the mortgage company have not given permission to let. So no payout if there is a fire, burglary, etc. There are laws in place to protect tenants for a good reason - things like electrical/gas checks, smoke alarms, etc can save your lives. Look for a new home asap.

Do you pay the council tax in your name or does your landlord cover it via the rent? Once, again, he is commiting fraud.

@BadBear when I first rented privately 17yrs ago, I didn't have a tenancy agreement or anything to prove where my bond had gone. That's the way it was back then. I then rented through an agency and had a tenancy agreement but nothing about my bond, second time so I as far as I knew I was never to have proof. This time is private again, but I found out the rules changed in 2015 where landlords even private have to give a tenancy agreement.

@Beccy82 I have been renting for the past ten years too and I appreciate the landscape and legislation has changed quite a lot, especially the last couple of years.

Sorry it came across a bit snippy but I meant it in good faith. Once this has been sorted, perhaps it's a good idea to idea to read up on all the changes and your rights as a tenant. OpenRent has some great blogs on it and it's specifically aimed at private renters that don't go through agencies. I think that if more tenants knew their rights and kept challenging landlords, then maybe more of them would feel pressured to do things the right way.

Citizen's Advice have been great for advice in the past when I had to deal with dodgy landlords (so many of them out there!). I do hope you get it sorted because I fully appreciate how stressful it is. There's no need to panic, the law is on your side.

I agree that you need to screenshot all the WhatsApp messages from your landlord in case he deletes them.

Call Shelter asap.

The “landlord” eventually decided they wanted the house back to sell and he went in and removed all the friends possessions and changed the locks whilst they were away.

If anything like this happens, contact the police and/or the council immediately. That was an illegal eviction which is a criminal offence by the landlord, and councils usually have teams that deal with this and other bad landlord issues.

When I was in this position as a student, bailiffs arrived and said that they were going to come back the next day and board the house up.

In England nowadays this should not happen. Before any mortgage repossession proceedings, and again before any eviction proceedings, a letter must be sent to the relevant property addressed to the occupier. The law may have been different in the past. So in a single household dwelling you ought to be able to get and read that letter. (In an HMO or student house, naturally it's possible one person reads or bins the letter and doesn't tell anyone else).

this really is not your problem op. do not panic.

the fact that you live there and have been paying rent creates a de facto secure tenancy. you can still be evicted, but you don't have to leave until ordered to do so by a court. if your landlord hasn't protected your deposit you can get 3x the value of the deposit back because of the flouting of the rules.

meanwhile your landlord is in deep doo-doo for having been utterly wrong in numerous ways, and will probably lose a lot of money. but this is not your problem sit tight, keep paying the rent, don't incur any expense or stress. feel free to choose to look around for a different place to rent if you wish but you are not in any danger - even if the bank closes on your landlord's mortgage and takes possession of the building, your tenancy is still secure until the bank organises an official eviction notice.

If your landlord doesn’t register your deposit within a certain time, he’s breaking the law. There’s really good info here www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection

I wouldn’t worry about the mortgage stuff too much. Just pass the letters to him/her. The lenders could get heavy with the landlord but if the landlord has sense they’ll sort it out. It cost me £250 for permission to change my mortgage to a buy to let. Perhaps it was discounted as I had only 6 Months left on my fixed period. (I was buying another property and the new lender wanted evidence that I’d switched to a buy to let mortgage as you’re only allowed 1 ‘main home’ mortgage).

Take Yinu's advice. Do not conflate your landlord's problems with your issues.

It seems like your LL has generally behaved well to his previous tenants and there is no reason to think this will change. Putting aside the issue of your deposit for a moment, the fact that you don't have a tenancy agreement generally works against him more than it would work against you.

I doubt he will want to lose the property, so now he's been busted by his mortgage company he will want to work to find a BTL deal. Without knowing his personal financial details it doesn't seem likely that he will have to sell up just because he has been defrauding the bank - although they may well want to pursue this further but that's between him and them.

Put the kettle on, have a cup of tea and a biscuit and try not to worry. As PPs have said, get some professional advice (Shelter, your Council's housing team etc) but don't concern yourself about becoming homeless any time soon.

Start looking for a new home asap.

Well he won’t have put your deposit in a protection scheme so you’ve got little chance of getting that back unless he just hands it over. I’d definitely start looking if I was you though.

You need to speak to Shelter and get proper advice.

The landlord is letting to you against the terms of his mortgage, that's not the same as you being there illegally.

It has the potential to cause you issues so please take proper advice and make sure you know your rights

However, not having a gas cert is a massive issue. Are there carbon monoxide alarms? Have you tested them? Have you tested the smoke alarms?

Your landlord is a man happy to cut corners. Now it might be that the mortgage and written agreement are the only two he has cut. However, you do not know that. So please, please, for the safety of your family do the safety checks yourself. Test your alarms. Fit more if there is a lack of them.

And take proper advice.

I would actually contact the real owner of the property and say you were renting unknowing he is true landlord or whatever the term may be. Try and arrange a meeting and just have a reasonable and sensible discussion about moving forward ie you would like to still remain in the property and apologise for what's happened and that you are a good tenant and you dong want to end up homeless with 4 children. Dont pay the 'landlord's anymore rent. Have all your bank statements ready to show the house owner and also go to Citizens advice bureau. Wish you the very best in getting this resolved in the best way!

If you are happy here there is no reason to move.

And this shows how happy people are to chuck out advice that they haven't checked, is incorrect and could be damaging to the Op. Op - you've had some excellent advice here, in between the stuff some have made up. You need to talk to Shelter and make sure you keep copies of any correspondence and messages you have. Then you will get the right help. Good luck with it all.

The mortgage is the problem. The landlord can change the mortgage easily, unless he has cash flow problems.
if he can’t switch to a buy to let mortgage with his current bank, he can Switch to another bank.
Failing him getting this sorted out it would take so long getting to the point of a repossession. In today’s circumstances it could take over a year. They would hav3 to go through the courts.
Do not loose sleep.

England advice. Lots of shit advice on here.

first, read the how to rent guide on gov.uk.

He clearly didn't tell the mortgage company he was letting it out, because consent to let costs money. They've found out because stupidly he didn't put a post redirect on. He won't have landlord insurance either.

the latter isn't your problem - it is his if you burn the house down and that happened to a friend of a poster on here. The former is your problem because breach of mortgage conditions can lead to repossession and then you will be out. That will take some time - eviction proceedings can't even start until end of August and there is a massive backlog.

no gas safe is also your problem, and there are many other things he probably hasn't done which you'll find out when you read the how to rent guide. He probably can't evict you because of all these screwups but the mortgage lender can.

next time - know your rights so you don't end up paying another crook.

The mortgage company will probably consent if asked, but will want a higher interest rate for doing so.

I expect the LL would cave in to that demand rather than let the mortgage company call in the mortgage - though he could probably remortgage easily enough.

On balance, it's the LLs problem and might never become yours - I wouldn't worry about it before there's real sign that the LL can't/won't solve this.

But...LLs have obligations to tenants, one of which is regarding the deposit and another is to provide (and prove he is providing) a safe home. So you do need a gas safety certificate (annually) and should nowadays have an electrical EICR inspection report (I think every 3 years).

Also, apart from the mortgage, he should declare that the house is rented to his insurance company otherwise he might invalidate that too.

He can’t have much longer left on his mortgage, surely, if the previous tenant was there for twenty years? Lender will likely rap on knuckles and charge a bit more. They might be a bit more bullish if he continues to ignore them though.