Think we're illegally in this house.

[Beccy82]

Hi guys. Really need your help plz? I moved into this house in February 2020 with my 4 children, private rental. Haven't had a tenancy agreement but I didn't when I private rented yrs ago either so no problem. In march I had a letter address to my landlord and his ex wife. I told him but he hasn't collected. Since then i've had 9 unopened letters for him.
Yesterday my daughter told me there was a letter in the door so I said "open it and pass it here please" I was washing dishes. It was one of the letters for my landlord. Obviously I shouldn't have read it but seen it said from mortgage express so I did read it. It said this.

Following our previous correspondence with regards to the possible lettings of the above property (my house), to date we have received no further contact from you.

Please note that it is a condition of your loan that you cannot let this property without our permission. To date, this permission has not been granted and you may therefore be in breach of your mortgage conditions if you are letting the property.

Wtf do I do? He's obviously letting the property to me and my family. The previous tenants lived here for 10-11 yrs. Are we going to get kicked out? I'm on tenterhooks here now. I finally found the house i've been looking for and i'm worried sick we'll get kicked out.
I have proof from bank statements that i've paid him rent every month since march. I don't have proof for the first months rent or the bond that was paid in february because my parents paid that but they'll have proof. But again, I don't have a tenancy agreement. All I have is the rent payments and all our messages from him saying what date I can have the key etc.

Please can anyone help?

Ironically Covid will help you here as nothing can happen till October at least.

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repossession/repossession_by_a_landlords_lender

You might be entitled to a full refund of all the rent paid if it's been illegally let. Keep all evidence and speak to Shelter.

If your landlord hasn't given you a gas safety certificate I'd be pressing them on that for sure.
Really when you moved in you should have had: tenancy agreement, inventory, government guide to renting, prescribed information for deposit, gas cert and an epc.
Without some of these serving a section 21 is not possible. And there are fines for not protecting deposits.

Also are there smoke alarms on every floor? Co2 alarm if you have certain appliances but really best practice to have one anyway.

any emails/text messages from the landlord?

presumably you have a standing order with your bank for the rent, which is proof if the agreement. plus council tax/electoral roll in your name?

this is on the landlord, not on you. you have made them aware, nothing more for you.

safe money for a possible move anyway if you can.

good luck

Make sure you have some evidence that you live there. Bills, emails, see if you can get the landlord to confirm dates. Keep copies of all correspondence. Do you have evidence of the amount of deposit you paid to him? A cheque in his name? He has to deposit your money into a protection scheme and give you the details. You could contact the main protection schemes in the UK ( I think there's two, Google them) and ask them. If he hasn't done it then he can't serve you notice. Also if you have to go to court to get your money back the court can direct he pays you back either 2.5 times or 3 X (can't remember exactly how much) of the what the original deposit was. So there's a big incentive for landlords to follow the law.

screenshot of the rightmove/letting agency/gumtree listing?

You should always have a tenancy agreement and you should always know exactly where your deposit is.

If you ever move anywhere and don’t have or know either of these things the landlord is dodgy.

@Carolduckingbaskin my bank let me let on my residential mortgage , I haven't had to change to BTL, although some lenders may vary. I had to pay £100 for a permission letter.

I think so, too, @Lightsabre.

A colleague had a case some years ago where this happened. The mortgage company wanted to repossess because of mortgage arrears and couldn't. They were negotiating with the tenant regarding how much he'd want to move out.

Sadly, I can't remember the outcome.

You're there legally, though it will be harder to prove it.

If the mortgage lender repossesses the property, you can be evicted, but the lender must send notice to your home and you can apply for a postponement. (And anyway there are no evictions or repossession during coronavirus).

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repossession/when_your_tenancy_is_binding_on_the_landlords_mortgage_lender

You should always have a tenancy agreement and you should always know exactly where your deposit is

Given the lack of protection afforded by shorthold tenancies, a tenant in law can have more protection than one with an agreement. And as long as the tenant has proof that a deposit has been paid, they could end up being better off with it not in a scheme, because of the penalties.

I know of someone who rented a house from a friend, it was all verbal and they just paid an agreed rent amount by DD but had no formal written agreement or tenancy. The “landlord” eventually decided they wanted the house back to sell and he went in and removed all the friends possessions and changed the locks whilst they were away. House was then put on the market. Not sure if the “tenant” took things any further and how legal it was with no tenancy agreement in place but they were effectively made homeless overnight and the house did sell quickly so they never went back.

@Paddingtonthebear, they should have sued his arse off!

I'm sorry to say OP but you are in a vulnerable situation. The bank got information that he is letting the property without their consent. What it means is that he should be getting a buy to let mortgage. He hasn't either because the interests are usually higher or he doesn't meet the criteria and can't get a BTL.

Sadly, the bank could as such stop the loan and that could lead to repossession. This doesn't mean you'd be expulsed right away, but would be very ultimately.

It is pretty clear your LL is trying to do things on the quiet and pretending that he is still living there. He is most likely not paying tax if he should. This is not really your business.

What is that he is acting illegally as a LL by not having done a gas check and shared the certificate with you. I expect he also hadn't done an EPS.

You are in a contract with him even if there's nothing is in writing. He should have put your deposit in one of the schemes, if not he is liable to pay you up to 3 times the amount of the deposit after returning it.

Even if he did protect it, he failed to give you the booklet 'how to rent' which is also failure.

He is really failing as a LL in every way and for your peace of mind, I would move and ask for your full deposit back in advance (so you can put it down on a new place) and if he refused, Is sue him after you move.

OP you need proper advice from Shelter. Don't do anything, or say anything to your landlord until you've spoken to them and found out your rights.

Even if you don't have a written contract, if you are paying rent it is implicit. You still have the same statutory rights as a tenant with a written contract.

The mortgage company can rescind the landlord's mortgage but they/he would still have to go through all the usual processes to evict you. It would take many months.

Yes. This is an illegal tenancy - move out ASAP. If the mortgage lender own some of the house then you don't have a right to be there. Stop paying rent immediately and move out. You don't need a written tenancy for terms of under three years but not having one is actually good for you right now.
Literally, look for a new place, as soon as you find one, give notice to your landlord of when you'll be leaving stating that you're doing so due to the illegal tenancy. Write to the mortgage lender and state that you have been renting the property but are making alternative arrangements - they'll appreciate you co-operating with them and will not do anything against you.
Just move out.

@StudyBuddy, that is the wrong advice. OP do not stop paying rent.

I wouldn't stop paying rent, I wouldn't risk doing that. The thing is I cant very well tell him I know i'm not supposed to be in the house because I read his letter on accident. Don't want him thinkin i'm reading his mail. So there's not really a lot I can say to him without admitting I read his letter.

I have all correspondence between us through whatsapp messages, from me asking if I could have the house, to him saying about damage he needs to fix first, to him saying when I can have the keys, how much the rent will be. I have all that.

From march my rent payment has been going straight to him through standing order with my address and RENT as reference. When its paid I txt him saying rents paid. He always txts back thank u.

As for the deposit and first months rent, no I don't have proof of that as my parents paid it, but they'll have it on their bank statement for february.

I did think of posting the letters through his door but I don't want him to say he hasn't had them. I'd rather him pick them up in person.

As for moving, I REALLY REALLY don't want too unless it comes to a point where we have too. This house is perfect for us all it really is. I'd be devastated if we had to move.

My landlord wont kick us out, he's happy for us to stay here forever. If anyone kicks us out it'd be the mortgage/bank.

I'm assuming I kicked started all this off by changing address etc for council tax. But then, the previous tenant, my friend would have been paying it for the 10-11 yrs she lived here. Surely they haven't been sending letters all that time!

Sometimes the mortgager will give permission for the house to be let but he has to pay them a fee first (everything costs) so it may be a simple administrative issue

I think you need proper advice from Shelter but as an abolute minimum you need a copy of the landlord's gas safety cert, details of the deposit scheme and a copy of a tenancy agreement. Shelter can help you to go about this in a way that wont put you at more risk.

Call Citizen's Advice Bureau and Shelter and they will help you put together a plan.

It might well be that you have to move if he's letting it out illegally or it can prompt him to sort his shit out and you can stay there. Although it does sound like he's a bit of a cowboy landlord.

How can an adult not understand that it's not OK to move into a house without a contract and without your deposit being protected is beyond me.

Make sure you screenshot messages from WhatsApp too as the sender can delete messages so it wouldn’t appear on either of your phones anymore

Agree you are in a vulnerable siruation. Forward the letters recorded delivery. I suspect he is not fulfilling ll statutory obligations. You should have a tenancy agreement with his address, gas safety certificate, details of depisit scheme etc within a specified period of moving in. There may be other items such as linked smoke alarms which are obligatory. Is he declaring income for tax purposes? It won't be council tax which alerted the mortgage company though. Maybe he needed to renew permission when previous tenant left.