To think the human race should respectfully die out?

[RomeoLikedCapuletGirls]

I’m not being goady as I’ve genuinely thought about this over the past few years as the following issues have come to the fore:

Climate change
Industrial meat industry
Pandemics

I’ve tried being vegan but always revert to eating meat for health. I’ve come to the conclusion that it was a much needed part of our evolution. The problem is of course the intensive whole scale nature of it, and the suffering it causes. Even the plant industry causes a lot of damage to the environment and ecosystems. The sheer numbers of humans needing feeding is the problem.

Again, with climate change. It’s a question of over-population. The more of us there are the more we deplete our earth’s resources we deplete. Limiting consumption is simply not working so we need something else.

And although we might crack Coronavirus, there’ll be another virus along soon to challenge us. And it’ll spread quickly because there are so many of us.

I’m not advocating mass suicide of course!

Just that we encourage our offspring to not have children until we have either died out or at the very least reduced our numbers to such a point that we are just one species amongst many, living on this planet and not causing the disproportionate amount of harm to the environment and other animals.

There’s nothing to argue that the human race should continue forever.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons in what ways does every other species 'give' as well as take? And to whom or to what do they give? There are some examples of symbiotic interspecies relationships (including with humans) but these are in no way 'selfless'. Each species stands to gain something in these cases. Parasitic or prey/predator relationships are more common anyway.

What does 'entitlement' mean without the concept of rights? And where does the concept of rights exist outside of human society?

I suspect you harbour a very romanticised view of nature which, ironically, is a product of the very human society which you claim to despise. The comforts afforded by human society tend to insulate us from many of the harshest aspects of the natural world while allowing us to admire it's more majestic and spectacular aspects in comfort and safety.

Btw when I ask people if they would do what they are proposing it’s not because I am angry or don’t want to debate, but because I want people to think about whether they would do what others so easily can (apparently).

If this was a debate basic human instinct - to survive and procreate - and how to overcome it would be part of it.

Very interesting post OP and very bizarre first response. I'm inclined to agree with you, humans have fucked this planet and there's far too many of us.

Has anyone posted this yet?

www.vhemt.org/

An organisation devoted to voluntary human extinction - live long and die out!

I agree with them on many levels.

I mean I'm finding veganism pretty easy and feel healthier than ever. I don't own a car. I don't put the heating on.

And while I understand what you're saying, I'm sorry but I'm 25 and it's ridiculous to 'encourage' us not to have children.

We're moving in the right direction eco-wise and frankly I believe I have the right to a family just as you did.

I agree that wealthy western families consume too much Marsha so in my opinion we need not only to cut down to maximum of one pregnancy but for western families to also cut their consumption by reducing reliance on cars and planes, reducing animal products in their diet, reducing the clothes they buy, growing their own fruit and veg, buying local etc. It all needs to work together.

There was a documentary about this this a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the Avengers went back in time and I did all of Thanos's good work.

Perdita If you had the choice would you impose a blanket one child policy? Would you be ok with it personally?

It's clear that heavy handed imposing doesn't work well - and I distrust any authoritarian government. But frankly I suspect other events, other existential risks will play out before the point where such a decision had to be made on a global scale.

I agree OP. I think if I'd known what life would look like now 11 years ago, or perhaps given it more consideration, I probably wouldn't have had kids. Not only for the planet's sake but for theirs. It really doesn't feel like a good or safe environment.
But yes, there should be a huge focus on a plan to gradually reduce the global population.
Also, I don't understand why more people eat less meat these days even if they don't want to become completely vege or vegan.
Mass production of animals is inhumane for them and a huge threat to us in terms of further pandemics. I'd love to see a drive to encourage families to only have meat once or twice a week for example.

Sorry, I meant I dont understand why more people dont choose to eat less meat.
Not sure about imposing anything - I think a lot could be achieved with education. I also think quite a lot of people would be ok with having one child - for many families they feel a lot of pressure to provide a sibling.

Must be an easy thing to suggest when you've already been able to have your own children...

I mean, fuck the rest of us right? We should have to make the sacrifice because you're alright jack?

Oh and I find veganism and not having a car very easy tbh

Why? Who do you want the Earth to improve for? Is it so future generations can enjoy a better, cleaner world? Or for other species? I think you need to carefully consider the motivations of why you think like this.

If the entire human population dies out the the Earth is left to other animals, why is that more beneficial than humans continuing to live? Why do other species matter more than humanity? Animals don't have conscious thought in the same way we do but they are all inherently selfish too. They won't be kinder or more consideration to other species and over time, other species would be decimated.

Animals will live & die in exactly the same cycle without any real meaning to their actions - which is all rather pointless, actually.

I also think that any generation forcing, asking or convincing the next one to do something they have not, so the first can appease a bit, is worth discussing. Can anyone really do this?

Fine if people make their own decision to not have children for the reasons they hold.

Coriander has a point. It’s easy to say, it’s the biggest thing to do.

The sooner humans become extinct the better. We are massive parasites. I can’t have children and maybe that’s a good thing as I’m not bringing further strain on the planets resources.

DP and I were talking about this yesterday, and are quite glad we've got no kids. Out of our clutch of siblings we're running at just under half our rate of replacement. It'll do.

I agree with you OP, I don't know why some posters on here are so against the discussion.
When I was very young my mother used to say the human race was a passing phase in the Earth's history, just like the dinosaurs etc. As a child I was horrified to think of the human race not continuing forever.
Now I'm much, much older I am very jaded. I think we have messed up the Earth for many centuries, accelerated after the industrial revolution. Varies groups of humans have been so unkind and cruel to other groups, we have ruined the beautiful earth with our pollution, global warming, our over-consumption, our litter. I do not believe that the cities we live in are the right habitat for humans...I could go on and on.
And yes, we have over populated the earth already. I just hope the human race dies out before we blow up the planet we live on with our constant warring and use of ever more terrible weapons....
It is all just so, so sad.....

I agree with you OP, I don't know why some posters on here are so against the discussion.

It’s not against discussion to raise problems. The opposite. I don’t know why posters are find a different view so problematic.

Wandering did you have dc out of interest?

I just hope the human race dies out before we blow up the planet we live on with our constant warring and use of ever more terrible weapons....

What would be wrong about the whole planet blowing up? What inherent value is there in this lump of rock that needs saving over our entire species (where the majority are just innocent bystanders)?

Has somebody been watching American horror season 8 by any chance?

People that think like this are generally depressed ime

I agree pp, life is precious and this is sad to say he least.

I think you are right op.. but the human need to reproduce is such a strong instinct it is always going to be hard for people to resist.

The human race is nothing more than cancer cells in shoes, our cities are tumours growing, taking more and more resources from our healthy host until we push it past viable life

'The sooner humans become extinct the better. We are massive parasites. I can’t have children and maybe that’s a good thing as I’m not bringing further strain on the planets resources.'

Thats unfair though isnt it? You cant have children or you don't want them. You chose not to have them is one thing but cant have them so label anybody with them is another thing entirely.