To think the human race should respectfully die out?

[RomeoLikedCapuletGirls]

I’m not being goady as I’ve genuinely thought about this over the past few years as the following issues have come to the fore:

Climate change
Industrial meat industry
Pandemics

I’ve tried being vegan but always revert to eating meat for health. I’ve come to the conclusion that it was a much needed part of our evolution. The problem is of course the intensive whole scale nature of it, and the suffering it causes. Even the plant industry causes a lot of damage to the environment and ecosystems. The sheer numbers of humans needing feeding is the problem.

Again, with climate change. It’s a question of over-population. The more of us there are the more we deplete our earth’s resources we deplete. Limiting consumption is simply not working so we need something else.

And although we might crack Coronavirus, there’ll be another virus along soon to challenge us. And it’ll spread quickly because there are so many of us.

I’m not advocating mass suicide of course!

Just that we encourage our offspring to not have children until we have either died out or at the very least reduced our numbers to such a point that we are just one species amongst many, living on this planet and not causing the disproportionate amount of harm to the environment and other animals.

There’s nothing to argue that the human race should continue forever.

Wool is a small, ineffective carbon sink at best, it's really not worth the negative impact sheep have. Quite apart from the fact that sheep farming isn't economically viable without heavy subsidies.

I have often heard the argument that a vegan diet would mean we would lose productive land, but why is it lost if it reverts to a wild state? It's still there, we could go back to using it. Besides, if we don't need it anymore because no one eats animals anymore, why is it a big deal? We don't need it, we won't miss it.

Read the link derxa posted, it's very informative.

Read the link derxa posted, it's very informative. Actually it's the usual Monbiot shite

Conservation grazing is already being used as it is a more realistic solution than 'let everything return to nature' (except humans), or 'if only everyone would go vegan'.
insideecology.com/2017/11/09/conservation-grazing/

Lynsey - animals can be amazing - but they are not as amazing as humans. They cannot solve complex problems or defeat the problems of their environment.
Nature can be amazing and can be totally destructive. Fortunately, humans have found ways to manage much of the destructiveness of nature.
As for scenery, we perceive it to be beautiful or ugly, worth preserving or not, because we are amazing and have created concepts like beauty and love.
Go ahead and beat yourself up for being a human if you want but don’t drag down the rest of our species with you.

Actually it's the usual Monbiot shite
I disagree.
The article is not about giving everything up to nature, it's about creating small nature reserves in which plants and animals can live undisturbed, similar to the way Britain was before most of it was changed by humans. I don't see what's shit about that. It doesn't take anything away from humans.

I don't believe that humans should become extinct, or that everyone should become vegan. But I do believe that things can't continue the way they are, and this includes mindless over consumption of meat, keeping environmentally and economically disastrous forms of farming (like sheep) going, to use the examples given by other posters.

I'm sure it will happen but I don't want to be around when it does, it will be a long painful process taking several generations and be thoroughly awful. Worse than any disaster movie. We won't all die overnight.

Do any of you have any direct experience of farming?

Unfortunately, yes.

What are the pros of sheep farming in the UK in your opinion?

www.agricology.co.uk/resources/benefits-sheep-arable-rotations

Sheep farming works in the UK because of our climate, and because the thin topsoil on some places is only able to support short grass.
I'm in favour of mixed farming over monocrops and that goes for livestock as well as crops. Sheep are no different from any selective grazing wild animal.
If you are happy to have deer and rabbits but not sheep, then ask yourself why.

Its impossible to go back to how things were ''before''. Is that to when the UK was mainly old forest, when we had wolves and bears? Or after we felled the larger trees to build a fleet of ships and new towns, and became the top predators?

We can only look to the future. The future is not going to be vegan. You will never persuade people like Trump or Putin to go vegan for the common good. They would prefer to have fewer people each having a higher standard of living.

I'm in favour of mixed farming over monocrops and that goes for livestock as well as crops. Exactly. You don't want soil exhaustion. Have people never heard of the Golden Hoof.
Is that to when the UK was mainly old forest, when we had wolves and bears? I'm sure people would love wolves and bears running about.

@Finerumpus I think the worldview you are advocating is rooted in Christian notions of dominion and stewardship. I was brought up inside this idea too and it can be hard to see outside of it. I first began to do so when studying sociology at university and looking at the impact this idea had when it was brought by colonisers to America. I think there are others ways to look at things that may produce better results, and dont see humans as separate or nature as something to be tamed.

No. This is just what I see around me. I actually worry about people who state that they want humanity to die out. It suggests severe depression or that they have experienced an utterly bleak existence. Being unable to comprehend the inventiveness of humanity and appreciate the uniqueness of our achievements is nihilistic.

I don't think it suggests depression at all. On the contrary, the more that I see myself as just a part of nature, a tiny spec inside something so vast and complex in comparison to myself, the better I feel.

Me too X. And the more amazed I am at our achievements and culture.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53409521

Very interesting read! There are significant challenges involved but I agree that women's education and reproductive rights shouldn't be sacrificed.