To think the human race should respectfully die out?

[RomeoLikedCapuletGirls]

I’m not being goady as I’ve genuinely thought about this over the past few years as the following issues have come to the fore:

Climate change
Industrial meat industry
Pandemics

I’ve tried being vegan but always revert to eating meat for health. I’ve come to the conclusion that it was a much needed part of our evolution. The problem is of course the intensive whole scale nature of it, and the suffering it causes. Even the plant industry causes a lot of damage to the environment and ecosystems. The sheer numbers of humans needing feeding is the problem.

Again, with climate change. It’s a question of over-population. The more of us there are the more we deplete our earth’s resources we deplete. Limiting consumption is simply not working so we need something else.

And although we might crack Coronavirus, there’ll be another virus along soon to challenge us. And it’ll spread quickly because there are so many of us.

I’m not advocating mass suicide of course!

Just that we encourage our offspring to not have children until we have either died out or at the very least reduced our numbers to such a point that we are just one species amongst many, living on this planet and not causing the disproportionate amount of harm to the environment and other animals.

There’s nothing to argue that the human race should continue forever.

this made me chuckle.

I’ll be letting my daughter make her own decision on whether to have kids or not, and will not be trying to convince her not to so we die out.

But thanks for the idea op, 🤣

@WineAndHobnobs thanks I will read that. My understanding is that plants have anti-nutrients and that fish is the best source of fatty acids.

But thanks. I will read it.

I think in an ideal world everyone would only want one DC or none (this would then mean that occasional multiples wouldn't make a big difference) and everyone would have access to free, reliable contraception and abortion. We could then halve the population with no suffering and people who wanted to could still experience being a parent.

Unfortunately that is never going to happen and enforcing it would mean making very unethical decisions which cannot be tolerated.

I have one DS and hope to be honest that he will only have one DC himself but it will of course be his choice and I won't put pressure on him, just educate him throughout his childhood on the impact of humans on the planet.

I understand I can’t force anyone to not have kids! I’m not a dictator

I’m just asking if you think that the human race at its current pace of reproduction is unsustainable and overly-damaging.

I can assure the OP that people will not stop reproducing. We are expecting a baby boom in Dec due to LD. I think we can multiply that worldwide

The human race will not purposely reduce itself. We are too selfish and needy for that. It will be a far bigger thing than our own conscience to reduce the planets population.

Totally agree with you OP and I have not personally reproduced.
I also agree that including animal based foods in the diet is important for optimal health, having done a lot of research on the issue.

There are just far too many of us. If we, as someone suggested, stuck broadly to the one child model and reduced the population by half and half again we could have a paradise on earth with the technology we have now.
Of course, our capitalist model that demands endless growth and consumption would need to be reimagined.

Well ask that then because this is so divorced from the reality of what would have to happen to get people to wipe themselves out.

Yes unsustainable, we will start to reduce at some point but probably mostly not choice.

Meat isn't neccesary now for most people, you probably just werent doing it right.

But humanity is like a larger scale swarm of locusts on this planet and I hope we die out before we kill everything.

Pellets Plenty of us.

Well crack on then. See you on the flip side.

But humanity is like a larger scale swarm of locusts on this planet and I hope we die out before we kill everything.

Will you volunteer?

I don't think that humans are any more selfish than other species, we've just generally been more successful at adapting and surviving than others and are at the top of the food chain.

Where other species go unchecked they can also have a devastating effect on the environment. I don't get sentimental about planet earth for the sake of planet Earth. In so far as Earth has value, it is as a home for us. I've had this view described as 'speciest' but I've no problem with that. I'm not some kind of disinterested bystander but an organism with a clear interest in my own survival. I'm also interested in the further survival of the human race as there are people younger than me whose futures I care about and they may have children they care about etc...

I think that our population should ideally decline (not disappear) over time though, for the preservation of the environment and to allow for a better standard of living for future generations than may otherwise be the case.

I think this will likely happen naturally though. Although projections don't currently show a population peak, there is evidence that where women have the choice and knowledge they have fewer children, even in traditional and developing nations. In developed nations, no pro-natalist or egalitarian policies have successfully brought natural population growth back to replacement levels (at least this was the case the last time I liked into this, I doubt it's changed).

*But humanity is like a larger scale swarm of locusts on this planet and I hope we die out before we kill everything.

Will you volunteer?*

But we aren't saying it has to happen by people dying prematurely, just by everyone choosing to stick to one pregnancy or none.

Like I said it isn't going to happen but I always find it interesting to discuss hypothetical situations and debate possible solutions etc.

just by everyone choosing to stick to one pregnancy or none

Why would people do this when it took draconian measures in China to achieve it? to one

I agree with you though I would have thought it theoretically possible (Currently unlikely) that we can find some middle ground and find a way to live here happily and sustainably. Some countries are on their way to cracking it. The vast majority aren’t.

Baboom yes agree.

I clearly said it wouldn't happen Marsha but what is wrong with debating? You seem to have an issue with people discussing things that interest them.

I agree with you OP and @MaxNormal. Such an interesting thread. My husband and I have also chosen not to reproduce. Sometimes, I despair at the selfishness of the human race and like to imagine what the world would be like if the population was reduced by 75%.
Food for thought. Thanks for starting the thread @RomeoLikedCapuletGirls, definitely an interesting debate with regards to 1 child policy.

Agree. I know this is going to offend people. but when Im shocked when I read posts on here where the woman has three or four kids and asking if she should have another, loads of posters saying go for it. I just think what??? Stop!!!

Because it’s too wishful and a vague idea that someone else will do the good deed. But those people in the future will have the same desires we do today so I’m interested in how you think it would be achieved

Which is still discussing it just asking about the realities of the idea

Ok my post doesn’t read well.. I’m still sleepy!

You can even commit to being a vegan but you want us all to sacrifice ourselves for the earth. Why does it matter that the vegan diet is not optimal? Surely you suffer for the earth. Seeing that you are advocating more extreme measures, its the least you can do.
Why don't you go to the jungle, or whatever nature of your choice, to be a good human. Sacrifice yourself for the animals. They will appreciate your sacrifice. They are selfless only humans are selfish.
You first.

Mass extinctions have happened.
Evolution won’t suddenly come to a standstill.
In two billion years creatures inhabiting this planet will be as different to us as we are to the dinosaurs.

We can only do our best to look after the planet the short time we are here

I don't think there is anything 'respectful' about death anymore than there is something respectful about birth. It's just something that happens. As "the world would be better off without you" is a not uncommon mantra abusive people pour onto their victims, it gets my hackles up a bit for anything similar to be made to sound noble. It isn't. We will die out eventually, it's inevitable, but that won't really solve anything.

Personally I find the thinking rather lazy. Rather than alter how we live, we just go on the same without kids? We maintain the current levels of destruction and inequality and just have less of us? Will there be something to ensure everyone is the final generation is trained and in essential work to maintain the structure from agriculture to water and electric plants to transport and so on? How is only having less of us going to make anything better - it's quite possible for fewer people to use more resources, we can already see that today.

Most stats I've seen say many parts of the world are already under replacement rate and that overall we'll start to level out around 2050. and then begin to lower at some point thereafter. Better access to contraceptives is great, but also is the need for better healthcare for children around the world - people tend to have less kids when they survive, better protections for girls from early marriages, better education prospects, the list goes on.

Really, we have a far bigger issue from people living longer than people having babies so if you're point is reduction of population anytime soon, you do want people to choose to die. I think we need far better solution than to just die because even if that's someone's cornerstone for how to make the world better, we still need to improve things so the final generation can live well without destroying everything.

I would like a move away from congratulatory large families as some sort of moral good but I still recognise that we have very strong instincts for survival and reproduction m
And future generations will too

I personally think that ensuring all women are in education until at least 18 is key Marsha. On a less positive note I think that if we do end up with repeated pandemics, natur disasters, crumbling economies etc that more people will see it as a sensible measure.