To think there has to be a gentler method than CIO for 13 month old?

[Pondlife87]

My baby is 13.5 months old and sleep just gets worse. She wakes up around 6-8 times a night. I'm working and I can't take it anymore. I have been against CIO/ sleep training but everyone is suffering and something has to give.
I've posted on a sleep training forum about it and people have said that she's too old and alert now for anything except CIO full extinction to work.
Please somebody tell me that they managed something a little less severe with their child at a similar age? I will do it if I have to, but only if it's the last option.

We currently have a bedtime routine which has been in place for about 7 months. We've broken the feed to sleep association. We've got black out blinds and we play white noise at night.
We've tweaked bed times numerous times, which only seems to make things worse. I've tried all the recommended gentle sleep methods for months at a time, with no change.

I'm at a loss of what else to do.

Co-sleep?

It's up to you. I would never leave a child to cry personally.

Watch nanny Jo frost. I love her advice. And Let your kid cry it out. It might be tough, of course.. . But it will be OK.. You will be OK. And your kid will be OK. Unless you wanna torment yourself with many more months of no sleep.

If you end up Co sleeping you just end up diverting the problem. I can't get a decent night of sleep with a toddler in my bed.

But act on it now because the longer you facilitate this, you might end up burned out with no sleep and a big job and a kid to handle/life/social life/house stuff.

Have you got a partner? If they want you I’d send them in to say ‘mummy’s asleep she can’t come now’ both of mine understood this at one. DH then stayed with them while they cried but over 4 nights it resolved the issue forever!

Is the baby fully night weaned? What are your routines before nap and bedtime? I don’t think you have to jump to CIO, tell us more to see if anything else can be tweaked first.

Does she have any milk in the night? If so, try night weaning gently. Are you in the room when she falls asleep? If so, gradually do it so that you're by the door and then out of the room. Does she have a few naps in the day or is she getting overtired?

Some more info for you all:

Cosleeping: we were cosleeping for a while but it just made it worse and she was waking up every half hour for boob. I think me being near her wound her up. She would absolutely refuse my husband. Now at least he can put her back to bed as she doesn't think I'm an option.

Night feeds: she is breastfed and for a long time woke up at 10ish and 3ish for a feed....where she was actually drinking so I didn't mind. Now she's up constantly just wanting comfort and a 5 minute suck. I've tried nightweaning and it just didn't work. I tried to reduce the amount of time, but if she didn't get her fill she'd just wake up again as soon as i put her down, or cry and squirm until I gave in and gave her more. Would love some tips on night weaning.

Falling to sleep: we rock her to sleep. If we put her down drowsy, she immediately sits up, stands up and starts crying to be picked up.

Bedtime routine: we've tweaked times but always kept bedtime routine the same. She has dinner, then a milk feed in the living room. Then up for a lavender bath and teeth. Then white noise and red light on whilst she gets changed into jammies. Sing lullabies and leave white noise on, but then light off. Rock to sleep. She normally sleeps the first 3 hours straight. Then wakes up for a feed.

Pick up put down method worked great for us, took a few nights but worth it

I'm in exact same boat as you at 18 months and do everything you do!

CIO as in leaving the child to cry itself to sleep alone? Not something I would ever support.

I co slept. It worked very well. None of the horror stories about them never leaving your bed happened, they all left our bed for their own once they were ready. No pressure about night wakings and feeds and night weaning. If they wanted a cuddle, we were there anyway, if they wanted a feed, I was there anyway. I felt no pressure to night wean. I could not have managed a return to work whilst still breastfeeding without co sleeping. I found dreamy half asleep feeds far less disruptive than an insistence on returning the child to their own bed unfed on every waking.

But all families work differently and what worked for us may not be right for you. I like Elizabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution approach as a sort of half way house between inflexible sleep training approaches and co sleeping attachment approaches, so maybe have a look at her site?

I remember mine being v hard about this age.

She came in bed with me.

It was the best way for us all to get the most sleep.

I wouldn't CIO personally.

It feels dreadful now but she will get better in time. 6 mths of your life is a tiny amount in the grand scheme. Your Dd is very very young and full of separation anxiety.

Personally I think you'll reap the rewards later if you persevere.

You have my sympathies! Mine woke hourly, sometimes even more often, until about 14-15 months I think it was. A mix of settling issues and hunger. He did eventually teach himself to self settle (albeit with me there pretending to be asleep as I still cosleep) and it eased off. We're down to hunger (he still has milk at night due to feeding problems) and pain wakes only now (he's had some issues the last 2 weeks with tooth 16, but it's through now finally). He often wakes up to practise talking, or sit up and have a look around, but puts himself back down within a couple of minutes :)

We didnt feel able to sleep train, partly because that would cut off the night milk, and partly because I'm too soft. He's getting there, and I'm hoping now his feeding is improving I'll soon cut the night bottles and maybe even get back to my own bed!

I'm sure you're already doing this but make sure she's stuffed before bed so she's not waking from genuine hunger.
I think you need to let her CIO. Im of the opinion that you either CIO or wait it out. She's not getting proper sleep either if she's still waking so much.
CIO is not as bad as you might imagine it to be, my son (12 months) got the hang of it quickly. I still breastfeed him once a night (around 3am) but otherwise if he whines I leave him to it (unless he's going on for a while of course).

"Full extinction" doesn't sound like something I would recommend anyone use on a baby.

Ah yes is she’s waking for boob just send your partner in (if you have one) with water. Your DC will cry but it’s not CIO if your DP stays with them, empathises and gets them back to sleep. For us it was 1 hour crying night 1, 15 mins night 2, 5 mins night 3, the consistently slept through. You’ll solve the frequent night wakings so quickly with this approach without leaving them on their own crying. Just make it that you waking up is not an option, DH brough my DC in and I pretended to be asleep - it helped them to understand.

@iwalkinmyclothing
Thanks for the recommendation. I've just looked her up and I like the sound of it.
I've previously followed a lot of Sarah Ockwell Smith and I find her a bit patronising and preachy to be honest.

What would you recommend I buy though? Babies or toddlers? At 13 months she seems between them?

I used The Baby Whisperer pick up put down method at 13 months. It took a few weeks but felt much gentler than CIO. They also have a forum where you can get great personal advice

I also tried the No Cry Sleep Solution but it didn't work for me.

My DD went through a phase of refusing to go to sleep without me and I used the pick up, put down method too. Admittedly, this was just a phase for an otherwise good self settler so I appreciate if this isn't altogether helpful but it took 2-3 nights and solved the issue for us.

I expect my DS will be harder as I'm still feeding / cuddling to sleep at 10 months so maybe I shouldn't give any advice at all 😬

Have you considered controlled crying rather than CIO? We did CC with both of our DC as they were waking every 30-45mins and I was starting to hallucinate. When it was just DD it wasn't too bad as it was just her, so we didn't do it until 14mo. With DS I had to do it earlier because he was keeping DD up as well.

We did the usual bedtime routine, then laid them down in bed, left the room and waited for 1min before shushing and reassuring from the door. Then 2mins, then 3, etc. We never got past 7 with either of them. Both took two or three nights and then slept through, still do at 6 and 2.

If they need us in the night, they let us know! Otherwise they sleep for 11-12hrs and are so, so much happier for it in the day. Both of them were utterly exhausted and miserable, and we had tried everything beforehand. CC changed all of our lives.

I posted about controlled crying on one of the threads previously. My daughter was just about to turn 1 when we seen a sleep specialist. Its hard work but it works and much easier to have a few nights of tears(for everyone) than to let it continue.

My DD was exactly like yours as a baby. At the age yours is now my milk supply seemed to decline on its own so I stopped the night feeds. She wouldn't drink any milk substitute so I gave her porridge before bed (with milk in it, obvs) and she started sleeping through. The other thing that helped was that she developed a relationship with a comfort toy and learned to self comfort, but I can't claim any role in that. Your post reminded me of that really difficult time, but we got through it somehow. Looking back I'm surprised she has any siblings!
Good luck.

Assuming she is eating well during the day, I would say night weaning would most likely sort out the sleep issue.

When my oldest was 13 months she had a big sleep regression and started waking loads. It was killing me. DH tried going to her but would always chicken out and say "oh she wants milk" and bring her to me.

Then we happened to be staying with my parents and my mum put the baby in the room next to her and us upstairs so I couldn't hear when she woke. When she woke she went to her with a bottle of expressed milk and a sippy cup of water and said "Mummy's asleep, but you can have water or milk from these if you're thirsty or you can have a cuddle with me". DD thought about it, clearly realised my mum meant business, decided just to have a cuddle and went back to sleep. That first night she woke up 5 times and the same thing happened at each waking. The second night she woke up once, and the third night she didn't wake at all. There was no leaving her alone to cry involved.

I think the key thing was that she realised that my mum wasn't going to just take her straight to me (she clearly wasn't hungry, but she fancied a suck on the breast to help her get back to sleep). By 13 months they understand a lot. If my DH had stuck with it rather than caving within 2 minutes (because he wanted to get back to sleep himself) he could have done the same thing.

Breaking the feed to sleep association is good but then you replaced it with rocking, she needs to be able to get herself to sleep so that she can resettle when she stirs at night. I'm a big fan of comforter and a cuddly toy to help with this. I'm not sure if you will manage with no crying at all though. Pick up put down, gradual retreat or intervals as pp described are all alternatives to CIO but won't necessarily mean no crying and you need to stick at it, pick one and try consistently for at least a week if not longer. Good luck OP!

Or you need Rainylake's mum to move in and help 😊